Chris Silva pitchin' in, too.
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Frank gettin' rowdy with a Twitter troll
- Thread starter kingofnerf
- Start date
Trolling aside but is the guy really wrong? Frank won when we had highly ranked players here. Without 2 of them, the run to the final 4 doesn't happen. I don't see anyone Frank has brought in since taking us there or even to the tourney. Can't keep overlooking the top players in state year over year heading elsewhere.
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I really like Frank and hope he can put this thing together. I am excited to see what we can do this year. With that said. If you are not getting a couple of true stars like we had on that final 4 run, then you have to have guys that stick around and develop as a team. Every year we turn over half the team and aren't getting the guys that may not be stars, but if they could spend several years together could gel into a really good team. Lawson was a great talent, but we lacked a #2 to go with him. Bryant may be that guy this year if he can get back on the court and into form. I am not sure who the #2 guy will be or if we have that guy on the roster.
doublea1971
GCF Top Poster
@Longhaul, not trolling you... simply asking a question. Did you watch this year's team vs. USC Upstate? @gamecock88 same question to you.
While I'm, admittedly, one of the "pro" Martin guys... From an unbiased perspective, it seems to me that Coach Martin has put together a pretty decent squad this year. Even without the stars behind players names, he has managed to put together a classic Frank Martin team - one that plays hard-nosed defense and has good interior play (offensively and defensively) from the bigs.
James Reese was not a highly coveted recruit out of high school, but has looked stellar in play so far. Erik Stevenson was a 3* recruit out of high school, but has shown his worth at every stop he has made (including torching the Gamecocks several years ago when we played him vs. Wichita State). I could continue this list of current players, but will stop with those two.
The point being... fixation on the stars of an athlete CAN be an indicator of potential. I would say that is CERTAINLY true if you're recruiting for one of the big time programs (KY, Duke, UNC, Mich. St., etc). But for the rest of the pecking order in college hoops, I would estimate that better than 50% of the 4*/5* recruits simply do not pan out to be who they seemed they would be. That can even be true for some of the big-time programs. Seventh Woods, as an example, was a highly touted in-state recruit (4*) that Frank Martin missed on, went to UNC, and never lived up to his potential. There's a LOONG list of in-state SC recruits who the same can be said of.
I will freely admit that Frank and his staff have not done the best job of judging character (not talent, but character) in the last 2-3 years. The problems of last year and the defections from the squad were not unexpected to me. When you have a chance to speak with some of the guys on the team, you quickly learn who is a "me" person vs. who is a "team" person. We had too many "me" players over the last few years.
My main point here is that I believe Frank has righted the ship by getting a combination of guys who he recruited out of HS, but initially missed on combined with guys with genuine talent AND a desire to work to help build the USC program. The former of the two categories... we have guys who decided to return home simply b/c the allure of being away from home and being a big fish in a small pond wore off. Now they're playing for the right reasons. Stars tell you some things... talent, for example. But stars DON'T tell you heart/desire/character. Those are the truly important factors in most cases.
I expect good things from this year's team. I hope that you will both do so as well. And hopefully we will all be happy with the end results come season end and tourney time.
While I'm, admittedly, one of the "pro" Martin guys... From an unbiased perspective, it seems to me that Coach Martin has put together a pretty decent squad this year. Even without the stars behind players names, he has managed to put together a classic Frank Martin team - one that plays hard-nosed defense and has good interior play (offensively and defensively) from the bigs.
James Reese was not a highly coveted recruit out of high school, but has looked stellar in play so far. Erik Stevenson was a 3* recruit out of high school, but has shown his worth at every stop he has made (including torching the Gamecocks several years ago when we played him vs. Wichita State). I could continue this list of current players, but will stop with those two.
The point being... fixation on the stars of an athlete CAN be an indicator of potential. I would say that is CERTAINLY true if you're recruiting for one of the big time programs (KY, Duke, UNC, Mich. St., etc). But for the rest of the pecking order in college hoops, I would estimate that better than 50% of the 4*/5* recruits simply do not pan out to be who they seemed they would be. That can even be true for some of the big-time programs. Seventh Woods, as an example, was a highly touted in-state recruit (4*) that Frank Martin missed on, went to UNC, and never lived up to his potential. There's a LOONG list of in-state SC recruits who the same can be said of.
I will freely admit that Frank and his staff have not done the best job of judging character (not talent, but character) in the last 2-3 years. The problems of last year and the defections from the squad were not unexpected to me. When you have a chance to speak with some of the guys on the team, you quickly learn who is a "me" person vs. who is a "team" person. We had too many "me" players over the last few years.
My main point here is that I believe Frank has righted the ship by getting a combination of guys who he recruited out of HS, but initially missed on combined with guys with genuine talent AND a desire to work to help build the USC program. The former of the two categories... we have guys who decided to return home simply b/c the allure of being away from home and being a big fish in a small pond wore off. Now they're playing for the right reasons. Stars tell you some things... talent, for example. But stars DON'T tell you heart/desire/character. Those are the truly important factors in most cases.
I expect good things from this year's team. I hope that you will both do so as well. And hopefully we will all be happy with the end results come season end and tourney time.
Admittedly I have not watched them yet this year, just speaking to the track record we've had since that final 4 run and what I have seen as a problem each year with not being able to build any cohesion with so many players coming and going and many developmental players without any ready to go in year 1. I've felt like Frank's teams could be really good if he could keep them together for 3 years, without having to get the top high school talent, but it seems like a turn style of players we recruited and did not pan out or left. I do give him a mulligan on last year and he clearly was not the same coach we have come to know as he battled covid and health issues.
I always respect your opinion and insight on the team as you are clearly more educated and in the know than I am. I will watch the coming games with tempered expectations and hope that I am pleasantly surprised this year. I would love to see us get a team out there that plays hard and hopefully can shoot some free throws
doublea1971
GCF Top Poster
Yeah, on the free throw thing.... I'm not holding my breath. We were 14-21 v. USC Upstate. Our bigs are gonna make me shake my head every time they take a shot (Josh Gray was 0-2, and Wildens Leveque was 6-10). On a brighter note, Gray, Leveque and Benson (Yes, I said Benson) all had 8 total rebounds. Keep that up, some good things are going to happen from our big men by the SEC season. (And even Tre-Vaughn Minotte had one rebound in junk minutes on the court, post-strep throat).Admittedly I have not watched them yet this year, just speaking to the track record we've had since that final 4 run and what I have seen as a problem each year with not being able to build any cohesion with so many players coming and going and many developmental players without any ready to go in year 1. I've felt like Frank's teams could be really good if he could keep them together for 3 years, without having to get the top high school talent, but it seems like a turn style of players we recruited and did not pan out or left. I do give him a mulligan on last year and he clearly was not the same coach we have come to know as he battled covid and health issues.
I always respect your opinion and insight on the team as you are clearly more educated and in the know than I am. I will watch the coming games with tempered expectations and hope that I am pleasantly surprised this year. I would love to see us get a team out there that plays hard and hopefully can shoot some free throws
Yes - I watched every second of it. First game is hard to say what we have and what the potential may be. I do think we have some long athletic guys but I still wonder who the consistent shooter(s) will be and who aside from maybe one that can create off the dribble. Rebounding should be strong. Hopefully they buy into Franks' coaching and defend the entire floor. I'm hopeful but not optimistic, mostly due to recent history. There was a TON of turnover from last season so it could take this team a month to gel completely. Still have to have talented, highly rated players if we expect to make any sort of run.
Erik Stevenson had a decent game against the Spartans. He got 9 pts., 6 rebounds in 26 minutes in his first game for us.
https://gamecocksonline.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/erik-stevenson/8117
How about the irony of one of Gregg Marshall's guys being a veteran player to anchor this team? Washington Huskies ain't no slouch, either.
He obviously needs to shoot better, as they all do, but his past stats say he will. He will be there for us when Bryant is not.
https://gamecocksonline.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/erik-stevenson/8117
How about the irony of one of Gregg Marshall's guys being a veteran player to anchor this team? Washington Huskies ain't no slouch, either.
He obviously needs to shoot better, as they all do, but his past stats say he will. He will be there for us when Bryant is not.
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