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The Battle of Gettysburg

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dreammachine

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I guess that this is one of the most talk about battles of the War Between The States.  Some call it the "high-water-mark-" of the Confederate Nation.  There are a lot of books out there about this one battle and many have to do with "--un-coordinated attacks by Gen Lee and his Corp Commanders"  There has been a lot written about Lt. General James Longstreet's suggestion to General Lee "to not attack the Union Army where it was located on the high ground", but to pull back and get in between the Union Army under Major General George Meade and Washington City, as it was called back then.  Lt. General Longstreet wanted to fight what he called an "defensive/offensive battle" where the Confederate Army would gain the high ground to their liking and force the Union Army to attack them since they were always out-numbered and had lesser quality armament (cannons) to fight back with.  Many a student of this time period agrees with Lt. General Longstreet and believe that if General Lee would have listened to this one suggestion and did as Lt Gen Longstreet suggested - the Southern Army would have crushed the advance of the Union Army in "wave after wave"???  Since this did not happen and Gen Lee stated "firmly that those people are up there and that is where we will fight them"!  Many people think that Lt. Gen Longstreet pouted about this decision that was made by the Commanding General (Lee) and was slow to get his troops into battle lines as what were the directions of General Lee for this battle as so much depended on coordination between fellow Corps attacking as directed on each side of their lines - be it in the middle or on both flanks.

My personal thought on this and this has taken me a lot of reading and studying for the last twenty years or so, I think I do see where Lt. General Longstreet may have been correct in his thinking and if the plan would have been adopted by General Lee and the Confederate Army would have gotten on high ground in between the Union Army and Washington City and forced Major General Meade to attack this strong position, they would have broken the Union Army like they did at the Battle of Fredricksburg, VA. 

This action might have forced the Union Govt into some kind of "Peace Accord" as the main Union Army (Potomac) would have been badly beaten and Washington City invested by the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia as it was so called.  I also think that if this would have happened and the South had won her independence that the South and North would have reunited by the time the Spanish/American War broke out in 1898 as there was just too much common good for both sides to stay together and both sides needed the other to continue to grow and prosper.

What say you?

 
Haven’t studied the specifics of the battle strategy. But I did visit the Gettysburg battlefield a number of years ago and it was very moving. The size of the battlefield is something that’s hard to comprehend without seeing it in person. Truly amazing yet very somber at the same time.

This is a must visit for everyone.

 
My great great grandfather was captured sent up north to a prison camp in Ohio and died their in prison towards the last days of the war. Left behind wife and 6 kids. Died st Camp Chase

Greatgreat Grandpa.jpg

 
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 I was able to go back to mid 1600’s to a Captain William Moberley. Below is his story. Notice he came to America on a William Penn boat. William Penn is the man that founded Philadelphia and the state of Pennsylvania. So evidently moms family in America started out as Yankees in the Philadelphia and Maryland area. 

On one occasion the father, Edward Moberley, was about to go on a trip to London with one of his dependents, Adam Varnadore. He called his son William to superintend the planting of some apple trees in his absence in a certain field during his stay in London. The son objected to the spot in which he was directed to plant the trees, saying the site selected did not suit-him, and that the trees should be planted elsewhere. The father insisted and enjoined that the trees be put out as he directed while away. With that the elder Moberley and the elder Varnadore went on to London. Adam Varnadore had a son Adam, the companion of young William Moberley. Edward Moberley, the father, and Adam Varnadore, the father, returned from London to find the trees set out against the wishes of Mr. Moberley. In concert both fathers pulled up a sion of the trees with which each whipped his own son soundly. The boys enraged under the lash ran away together. They got into a ship belonging to William Penn, the founder of the colony of Pennsylvania. On board Penn's ship was a beautiful girl, Phoebe Lovejoy, a governess of Penn's household. She was a girl of good family, educated and refined. Phoebe Lovejoy was a Quakeress, and to her must be ascribed the oft repeated statement, that the Mobleys have Quaker blood in their veins. In talks around the family fireside, down from one generation to another, Phoebe is said to have been a relative of Penn or his wife, and that she was as accomplished as she was fair and beautiful, that she was as good as she was lovely. She and William Moberley loved in secret, and upon reaching America were married without the knowledge of Penn, the Proprietor of the province of Pennsylvania, and of course all-powerful. Fearing his displeasure, not to speak of his anger against young Moberley, they fled to the Indians and concealed themselves among them. This is not strange for the Indians lived toward Penn and his people in the spirit of their chief's address to the colonists, "we will live in love with Penn and his children as long as the moon and the sun shall shine. That promise was never broken.

When William Moberley landed in Pennsylvania he was 18 years old. After the marriage and uncertain life for two years he moved to a point in Maryland, near what was called a few years ago, Point Tobacco. He and his wife settled down in that State and raised eight sons. How many daughters we cannot find out. We cannot ascertain whether there were any daughters at all. When the youngest son was a boy of 6 years and after the death of his wife whom he deeply mourned, William Moberley, stricken with loneliness and sorrow, craved the sight of his father, the old home, and native land. He returned to England, sad of heart and much changed in physical appearance. He had left a beardless youth, he returned a bronzed, hardened pioneer of the New World. So great was the transformation of physique, of manner and expression, that his father not only did not know him but pronounced him an impostor. The matter of his identity the father could not for the moment be brought to believe. He had sought him over a third of a century and as one whom his enfeebled eyes would never behold again. William Moberley with the tales of his childhood, of how he had incurred his father's displeasure, about the apple tree scions, his flogging, his running away with young Adam Varnadore, and at once going to the window and pointing out the orchard and the very spot he was whipped, convinced his father that he, indeed, was his long absent boy: Whereupon it may be imagined a scene of affection and reconciliation. William Moberley remained but a short time in England and returned to Maryland, died there, and was the first of our Mobley ancestors whose body given to him in the Old World returned to its mother Earth in the New.

 
I have all kinds of civil war mementos from my Great great Grand father his uniform his sword and much much more. Lots of very old photos and letters. I have my Great great great grand fathers Razor he shaved with. Beautiful piece of art the handle is made out of ivory. Also Great great grand father too. another made out of ivory also Great grandfather and my Grandfather too.  When I hold them in my hand I feel like I am there with them watching them shave.  All are straight razors how they used them with out cutting themselves is amazing. One of them is over 250 years old. 

 
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FeatheredCock said:
My great great grandfather was captured sent up north to a prison camp in Ohio and died their in prison towards the last days of the war. Left behind wife and 6 kids. Died st Camp Chase

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May GOD Bless your Great-Great-Grandfather as so many soldiers and sailors dies in prison camps.  Everyone talks about the conditions at Andersonville (Sumter) Prison, but more Confederate Soldiers died in Northern Prisons that Union Soldiers died in Southern Prisons, especially after Abraham Lincoln and General Grant stop the "soldier exchanges".  This was especially tough on Union Prisoners as the South did not have enough food to feed their own troops - much less Union Soldiers.  My Great-Great- Grandfather was a 15 year old Prison Guard at the Florence Stockade in Florence, SC.  I think his father - who had to be at least in his 60's was also a Prison Guard there too as the South was down to using young kids and very old men by this time.

 
FeatheredCock said:
 I was able to go back to mid 1600’s to a Captain William Moberley. Below is his story. Notice he came to America on a William Penn boat. William Penn is the man that founded Philadelphia and the state of Pennsylvania. So evidently moms family in America started out as Yankees in the Philadelphia and Maryland area. 

On one occasion the father, Edward Moberley, was about to go on a trip to London with one of his dependents, Adam Varnadore. He called his son William to superintend the planting of some apple trees in his absence in a certain field during his stay in London. The son objected to the spot in which he was directed to plant the trees, saying the site selected did not suit-him, and that the trees should be planted elsewhere. The father insisted and enjoined that the trees be put out as he directed while away. With that the elder Moberley and the elder Varnadore went on to London. Adam Varnadore had a son Adam, the companion of young William Moberley. Edward Moberley, the father, and Adam Varnadore, the father, returned from London to find the trees set out against the wishes of Mr. Moberley. In concert both fathers pulled up a sion of the trees with which each whipped his own son soundly. The boys enraged under the lash ran away together. They got into a ship belonging to William Penn, the founder of the colony of Pennsylvania. On board Penn's ship was a beautiful girl, Phoebe Lovejoy, a governess of Penn's household. She was a girl of good family, educated and refined. Phoebe Lovejoy was a Quakeress, and to her must be ascribed the oft repeated statement, that the Mobleys have Quaker blood in their veins. In talks around the family fireside, down from one generation to another, Phoebe is said to have been a relative of Penn or his wife, and that she was as accomplished as she was fair and beautiful, that she was as good as she was lovely. She and William Moberley loved in secret, and upon reaching America were married without the knowledge of Penn, the Proprietor of the province of Pennsylvania, and of course all-powerful. Fearing his displeasure, not to speak of his anger against young Moberley, they fled to the Indians and concealed themselves among them. This is not strange for the Indians lived toward Penn and his people in the spirit of their chief's address to the colonists, "we will live in love with Penn and his children as long as the moon and the sun shall shine. That promise was never broken.

When William Moberley landed in Pennsylvania he was 18 years old. After the marriage and uncertain life for two years he moved to a point in Maryland, near what was called a few years ago, Point Tobacco. He and his wife settled down in that State and raised eight sons. How many daughters we cannot find out. We cannot ascertain whether there were any daughters at all. When the youngest son was a boy of 6 years and after the death of his wife whom he deeply mourned, William Moberley, stricken with loneliness and sorrow, craved the sight of his father, the old home, and native land. He returned to England, sad of heart and much changed in physical appearance. He had left a beardless youth, he returned a bronzed, hardened pioneer of the New World. So great was the transformation of physique, of manner and expression, that his father not only did not know him but pronounced him an impostor. The matter of his identity the father could not for the moment be brought to believe. He had sought him over a third of a century and as one whom his enfeebled eyes would never behold again. William Moberley with the tales of his childhood, of how he had incurred his father's displeasure, about the apple tree scions, his flogging, his running away with young Adam Varnadore, and at once going to the window and pointing out the orchard and the very spot he was whipped, convinced his father that he, indeed, was his long absent boy: Whereupon it may be imagined a scene of affection and reconciliation. William Moberley remained but a short time in England and returned to Maryland, died there, and was the first of our Mobley ancestors whose body given to him in the Old World returned to its mother Earth in the New.
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Great story about your family tree and your ancestors.  I love hearing and reading about this type of stuff.  More families need to do it as it is a lot easier now than when I first started back in the late 1990's.  I think I have walked over and through every cemetery - from York County - down to the Charleston Coastline and back towards the Georgia State Line. 

 
Spur's Addiction said:
Haven’t studied the specifics of the battle strategy. But I did visit the Gettysburg battlefield a number of years ago and it was very moving. The size of the battlefield is something that’s hard to comprehend without seeing it in person. Truly amazing yet very somber at the same time.

This is a must visit for everyone.
 
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S-A, I have only been there one time and that was coming back from a business meeting Philadelphia and it was so very cold that day and I talked my two friends who were traveling with me to go by there, but they would not get out of the car due to the weather (it was really cold that day) - so I just stated that I would come back another day.  If you ever do get time to study the strategy of General Lee and then look at "just how close he came to winning this battle" it is amazing - considering all the delays and miscommunications between General Lee's HQ and his Corp Commanders.  It has been said only once by General Lee "when he was President of Washington College in Lexington, VA (after the war) - while riding with a professor at the college one evening, General Lee stated that if he had only Lt. Gen Stonewall Jackson with him - he would have won the battle of Gettysburg".  I think the Battle of Gettysburg was like the Battle of Fredricksburg, VA - where the Confederates had the high ground and the Union had to charge up hill and the Confederates were behind stone walls and had breastworks in other places.  The Union Army had about the same thing at Gettysburg due to the rocky layout of the high ground that they occupied first.  Higher ground - shorter reinforcement lines - and could pretty much see what and where the Confederates were going to attack next.  Great planning by General George Meade in his first battle.

It is is very interesting to think that if General Lee would have accepted Lt. Gen Longstreet proposal to "get around the Union Army and find the high ground that suited them best and make the Union Army attack - it may well have been another Fredricksburg Battle all over again"???  Great conversational piece for people that like to sit around and discuss these battles.  They usually have a "Civil War Round Table Meeting" in just about every city that has a college/university in it.  They keep it "low key and don't allow for people to just come in and express just one-sided opinions".  This most likely keeps the arguments from flaring up???

 
FeatheredCock said:
My great great grandfather was captured sent up north to a prison camp in Ohio and died their in prison towards the last days of the war. Left behind wife and 6 kids. Died st Camp Chase

View attachment 1309
Click to expand...
I have ordered and put out about 18 to 20 of these Confederate Headstones.  I use to go and tell the United Daughters of the Confederacy about where I put them and they would ensure that each soldier got a "Proper Military Funeral" with re-enactors and firing of the rifles for these brave men".  About 5 or 6 were for my family or close family members, but the others were for Confederate Soldiers that I found while I would be walking through Old Southern Cemeteries looking for my ancestors.  After finding a name that I thought would be a soldier, I would go the library as they had a two or three volume set of names of every soldier/sailor that served in the Confederate Army or Navy and once verified - I would then go to the nearest Veterans Administration Office and get the proper form and fill it out and in about 5 or 6 weeks I would get a call from a trucking terminal that my "Confederate Headstone" had come in.  Those thing were heavy and that's why I usually ordered them as flat ones as I would be by myself a lot and trying to properly lay one of them on a grave by yourself is a full days work.  I really enjoyed every minute of it and was proud to hopefully know that these great soldiers would not be forgotten.

 
Years ago I wanted to bring pop back to be buried next to his wife. But with his sickness along with mostly likely put in Wooding box would by this time be nothing to bring home. 

 
dreammachine said:
I have ordered and put out about 18 to 20 of these Confederate Headstones.  I use to go and tell the United Daughters of the Confederacy about where I put them and they would ensure that each soldier got a "Proper Military Funeral" with re-enactors and firing of the rifles for these brave men".  About 5 or 6 were for my family or close family members, but the others were for Confederate Soldiers that I found while I would be walking through Old Southern Cemeteries looking for my ancestors.  After finding a name that I thought would be a soldier, I would go the library as they had a two or three volume set of names of every soldier/sailor that served in the Confederate Army or Navy and once verified - I would then go to the nearest Veterans Administration Office and get the proper form and fill it out and in about 5 or 6 weeks I would get a call from a trucking terminal that my "Confederate Headstone" had come in.  Those thing were heavy and that's why I usually ordered them as flat ones as I would be by myself a lot and trying to properly lay one of them on a grave by yourself is a full days work.  I really enjoyed every minute of it and was proud to hopefully know that these great soldiers would not be forgotten.
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Dreammachine, I am impressed, sir.  History should be cherished and sacrifices honored...so well played.

 
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There are still many Confederate Veterans that need a proper burial/headstone.  This is a time-consuming venture and I did a lot of this after my first wife passed away as it gave me a sense of purpose and I always felt like the Confederate Veterans would have been proud of me.  Getting the "Ladies of the UDC" was also an honor as these ladies do so much for the memory and maintaining our Southern History and Heritage.  The Honor Guard that was supplied by Confederate Re-Enactors was also an awesome sight that really put the finishing touches on these ceremonies.  Sadly, I got some flak from some the "P.C. Crowd" that were members in the SCV at the time, but mostly just wanted to warn everyone to "not muddy the waters and offend anyone", so sadly I back off doing it for a long time.  A lot of my contacts with the U.D.C. have also retired and dropped out and these ladies would usely take the ball and run with it when I informed them that I had put down another Confederate Headstone.

 
dreammachine said:
There are still many Confederate Veterans that need a proper burial/headstone.  This is a time-consuming venture and I did a lot of this after my first wife passed away as it gave me a sense of purpose and I always felt like the Confederate Veterans would have been proud of me.  Getting the "Ladies of the UDC" was also an honor as these ladies do so much for the memory and maintaining our Southern History and Heritage.  The Honor Guard that was supplied by Confederate Re-Enactors was also an awesome sight that really put the finishing touches on these ceremonies.  Sadly, I got some flak from some the "P.C. Crowd" that were members in the SCV at the time, but mostly just wanted to warn everyone to "not muddy the waters and offend anyone", so sadly I back off doing it for a long time.  A lot of my contacts with the U.D.C. have also retired and dropped out and these ladies would usely take the ball and run with it when I informed them that I had put down another Confederate Headstone.
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Unfortunately, I suspect this type of activity will soon be a thing of the past as today's youth are so invested in the "cancel culture" mentality.

 
FurmanCock said:
Unfortunately, I suspect this type of activity will soon be a thing of the past as today's youth are so invested in the "cancel culture" mentality.
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Yes, you are exactly right.  I was amazed at finding the "Southern Cross Of Honor" on a lot of these old Confederate Veterans old headstones.  This was an "Black Iron Cross" that was placed on or beside the headstone to indicate that this was a Confederate Soldier/Veteran.  This "Black Iron Crosses" were put there by the U.D.C. and some of the "Local Ladies Auxiliary Clubs" back in the 1890's to 1900's.  Sadly, many of these "Beautiful Black Iron Crosses" have been stolen and sold at scrap yards over the years.  Replicas can be purchased, but I think it is a State/Federal Crime if someone removes one now from a grave site.

Southerns are our own worst enemy when it comes to protecting our history and heritage.  The Sons Of Confederate Veterans use to be a leader in doing this, but like everything else they all became so worried about being "P.C." that it disgusted the many members who would get off their "blessed assurances and actually go out and speak out for our history/heritage - find Confederate Veterans Grave Sites - clean up cemeteries where Confederate Soldiers were buried.  Now days, they mostly want "to meet - greet - eat and retreat back home" without committing to any good ideas or goals.  They also, as do the ladies of the U.D.C. - all need a heavy influx of younger and more dedicated blood and I just don't see it happening anymore.  Sad to say this, but it is true.

 
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