A Men's BB Coaching Wish List

[doublea1971]

Frank's teams here have been decidedly weird.

The 2016-17 squad went on a lengthy losing skid, left the SECT early, barely made the NCAAT, yet went to the Final Four and held their own with the Zags.

The 2019-20 squad had a similar trend, but had rebounded pretty well going into the SECT that was cancelled due Covid.  Last season just needs to be trashed for the obvious reasons.

Those last few home games at the end of the 2019-20 season were some of the best I have watched since the 2016-17 season.

Nothing wrong with talking about replacements for Frank at this point, but I still think you have to give the guy the whole season and see what happens.

@kingofnerf  No, that's why they play the games... to give teams a fighting chance.  Heck, that's how UGA made the NCAA's back in 2008, heading into the SEC tourney at 13-16.  But let's look at things realistically.  I think 21 wins qualifies us (and more or less guarantees) for the NCAA's.  We're currently sitting at 10-7 (1-4 SEC).  We have 13 remaining SEC contests (prior to the SEC tournament).  With those numbers, we cannot afford to lose more than 2 games in conference.  We still have Auburn again at the tail end of conference play, we also have KY, TAMU and Miss. State (x2).  I just don't see it happening.  But like you, I'll let the conference games play themselves out.

All in this forum know I've been a Frank Martin advocate from day 1 of his tenure here.  Unfortunately, that bus got a flat against Tennessee with what I saw from our team there this season.  I simply don't think that we have the staff to get the guys to play well.  Frank had a chance to correct things with a staff who could develop our bigs, AND to add some quality depth at that position.  He chose to pick up players who had strong potential, but did not provide the leadership/coaching necessary for guys like Josh Gray.  It's because of those kind of mistakes that I've officially dropped off of the bandwagon and am preparing for the future.  Don't hear me wrong... I LOVE Coach Martin and all he's done to elevate the noise around USC basketball.  Commentators STILL talk about how tough a team we are to prepare for.  What you DON'T hear is how teams need to prepare for our shooting prowess or our inside outside game play.  So, I thank him for his service and hope he stays in Columbia.  But I believe we're going to see an official parting of the ways at the end of the 2021-22 season.

 

[Longhaul]

That wasn't raining on my parade.  That was an informed opinion you presented.

I will say this... there are PLENTY of schools with good recruiting going on, who are not the teams that you listed above.  That is exactly why I listed Murray and Howard specifically (though, of course Howard was at Kansas for a while and cut his recruiting chops under Bill Self).  It is a track record thing for me, and also (as you noted with where your coaching choices were from) needs to be regional to SOME extent.  Getting the top guys out of SC is an important step in the right direction, and something that Frank has missed on more than he's hit on.  (Ever wonder what Ja Morant would have looked like paying for the 'Cocks? :basketball-1small:  )

But the real thing here is simply a need to grab some guys who can compete well in the SEC.  Not guys who are talented but need grooming for a few years under a system.  We must get guys who can step in and do their thing immediately while fitting like a glove in a system that the coach has in place.  So I posit that recruiting well is our biggest need and should be the primary thing to look for in the next HC.

This.  We were turning over half our team before the portal really became what it is now.  With things changing on that front we need exactly what you said.  NIL compounds it even more.  

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Another important factor to consider when it comes to recruiting basketball players is that 2-3 of the right guys can turn a program around almost instantly, it isn't like football.  Someone mentioned earlier that it takes Frank's recruits a couple of years to "learn the system" yet turn on just about any basketball game and there seems to be a least 1 freshman on every team that is "bombs away" scoring and making an impact. 

 

[Swayin]

I'm a Niko fan. He's a great program builder, IMO.

 

[kingofnerf]

Frank runs a very demanding system and when the team has a couple of tough losses together, the players try what they think can get us the wins only to lose even worse most of the time.  I don't even think Frank knows what to do outside of his system to stop the losses most of the time, either.

And he sure as heck doesn't get any help from Tanner if the guys are not doing what they're supposed to.  I mean, does Frank have a hair left on his body from the stress?

That's why I am saying get a new AD first before making any new coaching hires.

The response most fans have now when one of our sports teams starts off well is, "Well, we haven't really played anybody good yet."

Get a new AD before anything else.

 

[doublea1971]

Bumping this, given last night’s loss to Miss. St.

Wondering if there are any new “wish list” coaches for anyone.

 

[Gary]

Bumping this, given last night’s loss to Miss. St.

Wondering if there are any new “wish list” coaches for anyone.

I don''t have any new names to add. But after watching the game last night at MSU, it is obvious to me that we just don't have as much talent as most of the teams in the SEC. We got manhandled by MSU. They outrebounded us 41-24. I also think that our best defense is the zone that we played late in that game. . I think Frank is sold on the man to man and insists on playing it even if something else would work better.

Looking at the remaining schedule, I don't believe we'll be able to win 5 of the next 9 games, which I think we would have to do to have ANY chance at making the NCAAT. Frank's teams have never done well in the SECT, and I see no reason to think that will change this season. I believe we should win a minimum of half our SEC games in order to justify keeping Frank. At this point, I don't think that is very likely. So, i'm preparing for a coaching change. I just hope they hire someone I will like. I wouldn't even talk to Boynton. He has a good job now and I don't think his recorrd is that outstanding. Bob Richey is looking pretty good to me. I would also support hiring Brian Steele.

 

[FeatheredCock]

Looking at the remaining schedule, I don't believe we'll be able to win 5 of the next 9 games, which I think we would have to do to have ANY chance at making the NCAAT. Frank's teams have never done well in the SECT, and I see no reason to think that will change this season. I believe we should win a minimum of half our SEC games in order to justify keeping Frank. At this point, I don't think that is very likely. So, i'm preparing for a coaching change. I just hope they hire someone I will like. I wouldn't even talk to Boynton. He has a good job now and I don't think his recorrd is that outstanding.

Tend to agree. I just do not have a feel for who would be best to replace Martin and as of now, he is still the HC. Time to do something. He has had 10 years and this is not getting it done. The fan base is who cares and the attendance tells the story. Need to get the fan base back and excited.

 

[Gary]

Tend to agree. I just do not have a feel for who would be best to replace Martin and as of now, he is still the HC. Time to do something. He has had 10 years and this is not getting it done. The fan base is who cares and the attendance tells the story. Need to get the fan base back and excited.

I expect Tanner is waiting to see how the season turns out. I don't know what Frank's buyout is, or if that is something that would keep Tanner from replacing him. Hopefully, we'll all live to see what happens.

 

[doublea1971]

I expect Tanner is waiting to see how the season turns out. I don't know what Frank's buyout is, or if that is something that would keep Tanner from replacing him. Hopefully, we'll all live to see what happens.

If I remember correctly, there is no buyout clause on Frank's contract right now. I could be wrong on that, but when it was renegotiated last season, I seem to remember that it was basically a "perform or you're done" kind of deal.

 

[Homebrewcock]

I really wanted to see Frank succeed and turn it around, especially after the Final 4 run. I just think it's time to move on and find another coach.

 

[doublea1971]

I really wanted to see Frank succeed and turn it around, especially after the Final 4 run. I just think it's time to move on and find another coach.

100% with you, @Homebrewcock. I still think Frank has some good years of coaching left in him... just not at USC. I know former players of his from both KS St. and from USC, and they all still speak of how he will go out of his way to assist them. The guy knows how to build "boys into men", and is a true father figure in every sense of the word to almost everyone who ever plays for him. It's unfortunate, but I've recently disembarked (after being a LONG standing supporter of Frank continuing at USC) from the Coach Martin train. For me, it's a stubborn unwillingness to change staff members and insure that our bigs are getting coached the way they need to be. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

I wish Coach Martin ALL the best. I truly do. But we need new blood, and we need it now.

 

[Gary]

Frank is a good man and a good coach. Unfortunately, he has not been able to make the USC program into what most of us want it to be. I wish that were not the case, but it is. If the season plays out like it looks like it will, it is probably time to give someone else a try as coach. There are no guarantees that another coach will be any more successful than Frank has been, but its probably time to give someone else a try.

 

[GMB2USC23]

Not one coach on the list recruits or coaches better than Coach Martin want in one hand and shit in the other! Coach Martin and Coach Tanner deserve support from the fan base at a minimum until the season is over but hey create another Odom situation and end up with another.... I mean that worked out so well, crying about NIT's to just crying about losing and the what if Odom had stayed, how about if Fogler had stayed...
Boynton and Steele, so you throw away Martin and think one of his guys would come in?
Stop with this crap, please!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Not one coach on the list recruits or coaches better than Coach Martin want in one hand and shit in the other! Coach Martin and Coach Tanner deserve support from the fan base at a minimum until the season is over but hey create another Odom situation and end up with another.... I mean that worked out so well, crying about NIT's to just crying about losing and the what if Odom had stayed, how about if Fogler had stayed...
Boynton and Steele, so you throw away Martin and think one of his guys would come in?
Stop with this crap, please!

Mrs Martin is that you?

 

[kingofnerf]

The Ticket Office doesn't really seem to honor MBB Season Ticket requests unless you're in the Gamecock Club, which is a football organization. The devil is in the details. It's not just about the W-L record in some areas.

All of our men's revenue sports struggle to get above .500 in the regular season since Tanner took over and Ray's had enough time in our system to be set up for a nice retirement.

I don't perceive our current AD as having the acumen to help a struggling HC get better. At Georgia Southern, maybe, but sure as hell not here.

Dawn is a once-in-a-generation HC who wins at whatever coaching challenge she takes on away from USC, so she really doesn't count in the overall Athletics Program discussion from a competition standpoint.

Say what you will, but I just like Frank and it's been hard to watch him struggle the past several years. The ever-changing NCAA athletic world is leaving Carolina behind in the dust.

Let the new President hire a new AD and let that guy hire Frank's replacement if it comes to that.

When the baseball team barely finishes above .500 this season, you will know I'm right.

 

[doublea1971]

Not one coach on the list recruits or coaches better than Coach Martin want in one hand and shit in the other! Coach Martin and Coach Tanner deserve support from the fan base at a minimum until the season is over but hey create another Odom situation and end up with another.... I mean that worked out so well, crying about NIT's to just crying about losing and the what if Odom had stayed, how about if Fogler had stayed...
Boynton and Steele, so you throw away Martin and think one of his guys would come in?
Stop with this crap, please!

@GMB2USC23, I'm a bit confused with your comments...

You say "not one coach on the list recruits or coaches better than Coach Martin". I listed these names:

• Wes Miller (Cincinatti),
• Mike Boynton (OSU),
• Bob Richey (Furman)
• Luke Murray (Asst., UConn),
• Ulric Maligi (Asst., Texas),
• Jerrance Howard (Asst., Texas)

I'd like to reiterate that Wes Miller at UNCG was 25-10 in '16/'17, 27-8 in '17/'18, 29-7 in '18/'19, 23-9 in '19/'20, and 21-9 in '20/'20. During that stretch he took 2 teams to the NIT and 2 teams to the NCAAs. Thus far, in his first season at Cincy, he's had a solid season. He's recruited guys like James Dickey, Isaiah Miller and Francis Alonzo.

Jerrance Howard, while not a head coach, has been responsible for pulling 5* recruits like Quentin Grimes and Cliff Alexander, as well as other names like Marcus Garrett, Jalen Wilson, and David McCormack.

Ulric Maligi, per Wikipedia information, has in 13 seasons as a coach, been a part of seven 20-plus win seasons and an assistant coach of six NCAA Tournament teams. Maligi has coached and/or recruited 17 NBA players. The Athletic recognized Maligi as a 40 under 40 rising star in college basketball in the fall of 2020, and ESPN selected Maligi as one of the nation's top college basketball coaches under the age of 40.

I could record information about the others as well, but I'll stop there.

Remember... I, too, am a Frank Martin fan (and one of his leading "cheerleaders" in this forum over the past number of years). But he's proven the past few seasons that he's unable to climb back up the ladder when it comes to top notch recruits in-state and better than average recruits from the portal. I thank him for his contributions to the success and elevation of the program at USC, but his time has now passed. We need to move on and find a younger, hungry coach who has a proven record with recruiting.

 

[GMB2USC23]

Mrs Martin is that you?

Is that you Darrin Horn? If that you Steve Newton? You were over joyed when they were hired and you led the charge to have there predecessor fired, are you a clemson fan. If that you Tony Castricone?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Is that you Darrin Horn? If that you Steve Newton? You were over joyed when they were hired and you led the charge to have there predecessor fired, are you a clemson fan. If that you Tony Castricone?

No I'm not Darrin Horn or Steve Newton. I'm a life long GC fan that believes we deserve better than a once in every 10 year NCAA playoff appearance. How many more years do you think Frank should get producing the results he's been getting?

 

[gamecock88]

We are consistently a poor shooting streaky team. Mostly its not fun to watch and doesn't appear to be the type of system that will attract better players. The F4 run is a distant memory. Nothing about this program makes me think anything will change anytime soon. If UofSC wants disinterested, apathetic fans then keep up with what we're doing now. I don't have a list of coaches but a decent AD should.

 

[GMB2USC23]

@GMB2USC23, I'm a bit confused with your comments...

You say "not one coach on the list recruits or coaches better than Coach Martin". I listed these names:

• Wes Miller (Cincinatti),
• Mike Boynton (OSU),
• Bob Richey (Furman)
• Luke Murray (Asst., UConn),
• Ulric Maligi (Asst., Texas),
• Jerrance Howard (Asst., Texas)

I'd like to reiterate that Wes Miller at UNCG was 25-10 in '16/'17, 27-8 in '17/'18, 29-7 in '18/'19, 23-9 in '19/'20, and 21-9 in '20/'20. During that stretch he took 2 teams to the NIT and 2 teams to the NCAAs. Thus far, in his first season at Cincy, he's had a solid season. He's recruited guys like James Dickey, Isaiah Miller and Francis Alonzo.

Jerrance Howard, while not a head coach, has been responsible for pulling 5* recruits like Quentin Grimes and Cliff Alexander, as well as other names like Marcus Garrett, Jalen Wilson, and David McCormack.

Ulric Maligi, per Wikipedia information, has in 13 seasons as a coach, been a part of seven 20-plus win seasons and an assistant coach of six NCAA Tournament teams. Maligi has coached and/or recruited 17 NBA players. The Athletic recognized Maligi as a 40 under 40 rising star in college basketball in the fall of 2020, and ESPN selected Maligi as one of the nation's top college basketball coaches under the age of 40.

I could record information about the others as well, but I'll stop there.

Remember... I, too, am a Frank Martin fan (and one of his leading "cheerleaders" in this forum over the past number of years). But he's proven the past few seasons that he's unable to climb back up the ladder when it comes to top notch recruits in-state and better than average recruits from the portal. I thank him for his contributions to the success and elevation of the program at USC, but his time has now passed. We need to move on and find a younger, hungry coach who has a proven record with recruiting.

So if you put blind resume's with Coach Martin against those coaches you are telling me that they match up and you would hire them over Martin? When has moving on to the younger hungrier coach worked at South Carolina Athletic Director? Do we just like to repeat history and start over?
Coach Martin plants seeds and the rumor meal gets started by the haters every 3-4 years for him being to mean, for him screaming during games, name whatever reason you would like because for some it has nothing to do with any of that as it is just about change, he is not THIER guy! He took us to a Final Four and it was not good enough, some put this success to the side like my dog could have coached that group of guys, a year later he and the athletic director need to go, he has not taken advantage of "his success" that they did not give him credit for and ran off recruits. These are the most successful coaches in the history of their respective sport and as fanatics of your college you wish to run them off and have decided to pick the middle of the season to advertise it on a fan base forum, BRILLIANT! From the outside looking in other fan bases are loving it!
I saw the same thing when Fogler was run off, the same thing would happen to Miller since he is a Blue Blood if he crossed the street wrong or he loss to unc, you pine the success of Miller at the NIT but we ran off Odom and all the seeds he planted for a younger and more hungry coach after winning back to back NIT's. Instead of backing Odom for the selection committee robbing him we run him off, how did that work? If you are going to hire a coach, hire a respected veteran coach and if you can't do that you need to hold your cards tight to your chest in my opinion. Young and hungry coach, we have seen that story before and you are just rewashing history, you guys will eat him before he gets out the car.
If Coach Martin is to catch a genie in a bottle every 5 years and win an NCAA tourney game then he is far an away the greatest basketball coach we have ever had or do you feel so entitled that you should win an NCAA game every year, go to the tourney every year, he should be as good as Staley and it is not enough that he creates great men, runs a clean program, has the respect of the basketball culture in and around the midlands or has done more as the coach at South Carolina than any coach before him? Ask Coach Staley if she thinks Coach Martin should be fired...
Some fans would cut off their nose to smell their ass!