Will Frank Return?

[kingofnerf]

I enjoyed the NIT stuff with Odom, but he never got the wins to get to next level.

Tom Izzo took Michigan St. to the NIT his first two years there, but he continued to improve the team after that and never looked back.

I remember the year under Frank we got snubbed by the NCAAT and got dumped by Georgia Tech in the first round of the NIT.

They were obviously disappointed by the snub and didn't want to play anymore, even though there was a chance to maybe set the record for wins in a season if they were to win the NIT championship.

Instead Frank and the team said to hell with it.

At some point he and/or the players decide they don't want do what's necessary to win and they lose too many games.  That's the only problem I have with Frank but it's a bad one.

If you watch other teams enough, other teams don't have the same problem.  They get beat by mismatches, which happens, and that's it.

Any decent, experienced AD would have already stepped in and laid the law down with the players about playing within a system that got us to the Final Four.

You don't know if Frank has asked for help from Tanner and not gotten it or if Tanner has offered his assistance and Frank has refused.

 

[Gary]

Would the NCAA  make more money and generate more interest if they would delete the NIT and expand the NCAAT to 96 teams?  Give the first 32 seeds a first round bye and the 32 first round winners could join the teams with the bye and finish the tournament.   

 

[Gary]

That NIT team was the first Power FIve team in 14 years to win 24 games and not make the NCAA - which is why, when people want Frank to leave because he only made one NCAA, that is a ittle bit of a narrow criterion. 

I remember Tulsa made it that year based on wins against Top 50 teams. We had Tulsa beat in every other metric, and would have more Top 60 wins if you expanded it by 10 - and even beat Tulsa head to head.

But that was the year that they emphasized Top 50 wins - as explained by the head of the NCAA Selection Committee. Who happened to be a professor - at Tulsa.

That team got screwed.  Should have made the tournament.  I can't blame Frank because someone outside the program made a bad decision.  And last season, only God knows what might have happened had the season finished as normal.   I think we would at leave have gone to the NIT.   So, that's 3 teams that Frank has had here that would have been in a post-season tournament, but for decisions made by outside forces.   

 

[kingofnerf]

That NIT team was the first Power FIve team in 14 years to win 24 games and not make the NCAA - which is why, when people want Frank to leave because he only made one NCAA, that is a ittle bit of a narrow criterion. 

I remember Tulsa made it that year based on wins against Top 50 teams. We had Tulsa beat in every other metric, and would have more Top 60 wins if you expanded it by 10 - and even beat Tulsa head to head.

But that was the year that they emphasized Top 50 wins - as explained by the head of the NCAA Selection Committee. Who happened to be a professor - at Tulsa.

The Committee took a 19-win Vandy team over us because they played a much tougher schedule even though they lost some of the games.

Kevin Stallings was on the verge of being fired. 

What about Vandy while we're on the subject?  Neither Bryce Drew (a proven winner at Valpo) or Jerry Stackhouse have been able to find success there since Stallings is gone.

On March 9, 2018, it was reported that Stallings retired from coaching.  He was issued a three year show-cause penalty by the NCAA on February 20, 2020 for exceeding the number of permissible coaches on his staff and lying to Pitt officials about it. He allowed three basketball staffers to perform coaching duties, then implemented an alert system to keep the staffers from being caught. He even went as far as to delete video footage in order to throw Pitt officials off the scent. The show-cause penalty runs until February 19, 2023; if Stallings gets another coaching job during this time, he will be suspended for the first 30 percent of the first season of his return.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Stallings

Stallings had a good mixed-bag of NIT and NCAAT appearances during his tenure at Vandy.  That's really what we need given that USC is still not a destination job yet in the eyes of many.

The stuff he did at Pitt makes you wonder if he was doing something similar at Vandy all those years and it was overlooked by the school.

 

[Boca Bobby]

Our problem is narcissistic egotism with enough key players that it matters. 

They behave like spoiled, high-maintenance women in games.  God help the man who marries one of those.  If you don't know what I am talking about, then you haven't been around much.

It's sexist as hell, but it's also the damned truth as far as some of our players are concerned.

I can't tell you how many times over the years I have watched the coaches stare in disbelief on the sidelines after a key timeout when the players don't do what Frank asked them to do.

Frank is just tired of having to fight it all the time.

Martin is a bum. Its time to move on. He picks the players and coaches them every day. If they aren't listening to him it is his own damn fault. 

 

[Boca Bobby]

That NIT team was the first Power FIve team in 14 years to win 24 games and not make the NCAA - which is why, when people want Frank to leave because he only made one NCAA, that is a ittle bit of a narrow criterion. 

I remember Tulsa made it that year based on wins against Top 50 teams. We had Tulsa beat in every other metric, and would have more Top 60 wins if you expanded it by 10 - and even beat Tulsa head to head.

But that was the year that they emphasized Top 50 wins - as explained by the head of the NCAA Selection Committee. Who happened to be a professor - at Tulsa.

Didn't get screwed. The 24 wins that year was misleading as the out of conference schedule was incredibly weak. Wins against Allen College, Norfolk St. and Francis Marion among others... When other teams were playing North Carolina, we played Western Carolina. Come on Martin, ya gotta do better than that

To make the tournament you have to play good teams and beat them. The committee got it right, they saw through Martin's trying to "game the system" with slapdick easy opponents 

 

[gamecock88]

Didn't get screwed. The 24 wins that year was misleading as the out of conference schedule was incredibly weak. To make the tournament you have to play good teams and beat them. The committee got it right, they saw through Martin's trying to "game the system" with slapdick easy opponents 

The 2015-2016 Season?  We won 25 that year.  Finished 3rd in conf.

 

[Boca Bobby]

The 2015-2016 Season?  We won 25 that year.  Finished 3rd in conf.

24 in the reg season. the 25th win was against a small school in the 1st round of the NIT before bowing out in round 2

 

[gamecock88]

24 in the reg season. the 25th win was against a small school in the 1st round of the NIT before bowing out in round 2

10-4.  I'm not sure how it all played out but our sos scheduled was obviously the major issue.  Curious how we compared against bubble teams that got in the tourney. 

 

[markymark550]

10-4.  I'm not sure how it all played out but our sos scheduled was obviously the major issue.  Curious how we compared against bubble teams that got in the tourney. 

We had what looked like good opponents to start the year, but wound up not being the case as the season went on. For example, we played St John's, who made the 2015 NCAA Tournament but was terrible in the 2015-16 season. Vanderbilt and Tulsa were both bubble teams that year. We beat both of them during the regular season. Ultimately, the committee decided that losing tougher games was more worthy than actually winning games, especially when head-to-head was involved. I think we should have made it that year, but can understand why we didn't. I really believe that losing that third game to Georgia in the SECT, was the nail in our coffin. If we had won that one, I think we would have been in regardless of the rest of the SECT results. 

 

[Boca Bobby]

We had what looked like good opponents to start the year, but wound up not being the case as the season went on. For example, we played St John's, who made the 2015 NCAA Tournament but was terrible in the 2015-16 season. Vanderbilt and Tulsa were both bubble teams that year. We beat both of them during the regular season. Ultimately, the committee decided that losing tougher games was more worthy than actually winning games, especially when head-to-head was involved. I think we should have made it that year, but can understand why we didn't. I really believe that losing that third game to Georgia in the SECT, was the nail in our coffin. If we had won that one, I think we would have been in regardless of the rest of the SECT results. 

the committee has been that way every year. There is no incentive to beating bad teams. It is always in a team's best interest, win or lose, to schedule the best opponents possible. Smacking around Western Carolina has no benefit. I hoped that year provided that lesson and it did a little bit but the scheduling still needs to upgrade

 

[markymark550]

Sure, it's best to schedule the best opponents you can, but you never know for sure if they will be any good. I think the committee discounted our wins against other NCAA Tournament teams, especially those on the bubble, too much.

 

[kingofnerf]

24 in the reg season. the 25th win was against a small school in the 1st round of the NIT before bowing out in round 2

One of those regular season wins was against D2 Francis Marion.  D2 wins don't count for the NCAAT.

So 23 regular season wins if you see it from that standpoint.

Frank caught heat for wasting a date on a D2 team back then, too.  I was critical of that schedule choice back then as well.

 

[Boca Bobby]

One of those regular season wins was against D2 Francis Marion.  D2 wins don't count for the NCAAT.

So 23 regular season wins if you see it from that standpoint.

Frank caught heat for wasting a date on a D2 team back then, too.  I was critical of that schedule choice back then as well.

Should never schedule a D2 team. never, ever

 

[kingofnerf]

Should never schedule a D2 team. never, ever

Concur.  Especially one like Augusta that upset us and made us look stupid the other year.