Corona virus, the non-asshole thread

[Cockyandproud]

About twenty years ago I ended up in the hospital with a horrid case of Scabies. Once they figured out what it was in the ER they spread Ivermectin cream over my whole body and admitted me to an isolation room. They talked about giving me the oral form of it, but either because my kidneys had already started to fail and they thought it would make them worst, or they thought they killed all the Scabies, they never did. Those Scabies were one of the worst medical experiences of my life and I've had some bad ones. They lay eggs in your skin and even though they were dead I was uncontrollably itchy for like a month after I was discharged.

Is Scabies similar to chiggers?  It sounds like its worse. If that’s the case, I can’t imagine how bad that would be. Chiggers will drive you out of your mind. 

 

[SanAntonioCock]

I saw that approximately 200 million people in the US have been vaccinated. Why is there so much trouble?  With 2/3 of the population vaccinated, shouldn’t it be in decline by now?  Why if you get the vaccine, do you have to get boosters every few months now?   Why were masks not effective then effective, then that wasn’t enough, so it became 2 or three masks?  If it isn’t a containment suit, it is doing nothing to prevent viral infection. Why is natural immunity not mentioned as the most effective way to rid ourselves of this?  I can tell you from personal experience that it works like a charm. Why is Australia spiking when they are locking their people down like no other country, but their numbers continue to rise?

Covid-19 is a new virus to medicine and science so it's been a learn in the fly in many aspects. Coronaviruses aren't new though and they have been working on vaccines for them for over a decade. I heard it would take 80 to 85% including children, to start to eradicate Covid-19 but that was before the varients started appearing. Medical personnel have always worn masks to prevent infection spread. I think it's common sense that natural immunity is great, but it seems like pretty much everybody is going to get it at some point now and the more natural immunity and help from vaccines the less sick people will be. It's my understanding that Australia has been in a more locked down situation than us from the beginning and they just not too long ago broke 1,000 for the whole continent if I remember correctly. I don't think lock downs are the answer though for many reasons. Vaccines and boosters are just like are for the flu and many other communicle diseases.

 

[SanAntonioCock]

Is Scabies similar to chiggers?  It sounds like its worse. If that’s the case, I can’t imagine how bad that would be. Chiggers will drive you out of your mind. 

I think Scabies are a bigger mite and harder to kill than Chiggers. The females burrow into your skin to lay eggs and it's miserable. I have no idea how I was exposed to them, in the 72 hours before it got so bad I actually had very little contact with anyone and that's when they said I was exposed. Ivermectin kills the hell out of them though but it takes your body awhile to rid itself of the eggs and the ones burrowed in the skin.

 

[STS]

The problem with vaccine mandates are that they ignores the fact that millions have natural immunity due to having the virus…a more scientific basis would be to prove immunity as opposed to proving vaccination…science doesn’t lie and vaccination is only one way to gain immunity (and the safest in my eyes for sure)…one thing I would find interesting is to see if those with breakthrough infections ever had immunity built in the first place 

 

[Spur's Addiction]

one thing I would find interesting is to see if those with breakthrough infections ever had immunity built in the first place 

Was wondering the same thing in my case. I remember after I got both shots, other then a sore arm I didn't have any side effects. Didn't feel bad the next day etc. I am wondering if my body just did not generate strong response to the vaccine. Will never know. Just speculating.

 

[Swayin]

I saw that approximately 200 million people in the US have been vaccinated. Why is there so much trouble?  With 2/3 of the population vaccinated, shouldn’t it be in decline by now?  Why if you get the vaccine, do you have to get boosters every few months now?   Why were masks not effective then effective, then that wasn’t enough, so it became 2 or three masks?  If it isn’t a containment suit, it is doing nothing to prevent viral infection. Why is natural immunity not mentioned as the most effective way to rid ourselves of this?  I can tell you from personal experience that it works like a charm. Why is Australia spiking when they are locking their people down like no other country, but their numbers continue to rise?

It is riding through the unvaccinated like mono through a high school. And those folks are passing it along into breakthrough cases as well. Natural immunity didn't stop it from killing almost 700,000 Americans and at last count, the number of cases of fatalities from breakthrough cases was at or close to zero. and masks have been absolutely shown to be a huge aid in preventing spread. If you had COVID one and are unvaccinated, you are more than twice as likely as a vaccinated person to get it again.

 

[STS]

Was wondering the same thing in my case. I remember after I got both shots, other then a sore arm I didn't have any side effects. Didn't feel bad the next day etc. I am wondering if my body just did not generate strong response to the vaccine. Will never know. Just speculating.

Great question…I would be really interested in a study like that

 

[STS]

It is riding through the unvaccinated like mono through a high school. And those folks are passing it along into breakthrough cases as well. Natural immunity didn't stop it from killing almost 700,000 Americans and at last count, the number of cases of fatalities from breakthrough cases was at or close to zero. and masks have been absolutely shown to be a huge aid in preventing spread. If you had COVID one and are unvaccinated, you are more than twice as likely as a vaccinated person to get it again.

Say what?  Natural immunity saved way more than 700k

 

[Swayin]

Say what?  Natural immunity saved way more than 700k

I'm comparing the number of people who have died unvaccinated vs the number of people who have died vaccinated. If we are talking just about the lethality/morbidity rate of dying if you contract the virus, it is important to note that it is 5x more deadly than the flu.

 

[STS]

I'm comparing the number of people who have died unvaccinated vs the number of people who have died vaccinated. If we are talking just about the lethality/morbidity rate of dying if you contract the virus, it is important to note that it is 5x more deadly than the flu.

My point is the millions and millions who had the virus and survived prior to vaccinations…those people survived on natural immunity and it dwarfs (fortunately) the 700k…you said that natural immunity didn’t stop 700k…you are right it stopped way more…luckily now we have another way to gain immunity but I can understand those who have antibodies not wanting to have a vaccine mandated when it’s goal is not really what the goal should be 

 

[JimG]

…you said that natural immunity didn’t stop 700k…

But how many of those 700k would be alive if they'd gotten vaxxed (hypothetical of course)?

And the deeper tragedy is how many have we lost since vaxxing started that would have been Ok if they had gotten vaxxed? 

 

[Swayin]

you said that natural immunity didn’t stop 700k…you are right it stopped way more

Yes what I should have said to be clearer was that natural immunity didn't help the 700k people who it has killed.

 

[STS]

But how many of those 700k would be alive if they'd gotten vaxxed (hypothetical of course)?

And the deeper tragedy is how many have we lost since vaxxing started that would have been Ok if they had gotten vaxxed? 

I know that this seems callous but I struggle to have sympathy for those who get hospitalized now for COVID who were eligible for the vaccine and chose not to get it...Obviously I am a proponent of vaccination but realize that there are people who developed their immunity the old fashioned way...that being said I am glad that I was not lucky enough not to contract the virus prior to the advent of the vaccine

As for the 700k...no idea but if this type of viruse evaded our immune systems entirely and no natural immunity developed the death toll would have been massive until the vaccine was developed...and if this was the case I would imagine that our vaccination rates would be much higher

 

[Spur's Addiction]

But how many of those 700k would be alive if they'd gotten vaxxed (hypothetical of course)?

And the deeper tragedy is how many have we lost since vaxxing started that would have been Ok if they had gotten vaxxed? 

Vaccines have been readily available for everyone over 12 in pretty most of the country since around May. We hit 500k in January IIRC. So not sure how the numbers work out. But a good portion of the deaths since May could have been avoidable with more widespread vaccinations. 

 

[FurmanCock]

As for the 700k...no idea but if this type of viruse evaded our immune systems entirely and no natural immunity developed the death toll would have been massive until the vaccine was developed...and if this was the case I would imagine that our vaccination rates would be much higher

Hmmm...this made me think.  Obviously,the immune system of humans puts up some defense against viruses including Covid, or the fatality rate would have been much greater, excluding persons with comorbidities or stressed immune systems which have greater difficulties fighting off attacks.  But this virus could have been something that we had no natural immunity against, and the prospect that it may have been created through a gain of function laboratory process makes me wonder -- should the world as a whole be spending more time on the ethical question of are there areas of science that we don't need to go because of potential catastrophic consequences?  Unintended consequences seems to me to be a really important consideration regarding scientific research.

 

[STS]

Hmmm...this made me think.  Obviously,the immune system of humans puts up some defense against viruses including Covid, or the fatality rate would have been much greater, excluding persons with comorbidities or stressed immune systems which have greater difficulties fighting off attacks.  But this virus could have been something that we had no natural immunity against, and the prospect that it may have been created through a gain of function laboratory process makes me wonder -- should the world as a whole be spending more time on the ethical question of are there areas of science that we don't need to go because of potential catastrophic consequences?  Unintended consequences seems to me to be a really important consideration regarding scientific research.

IMO, there is a reason that this research was not done in the USA...there is no way gain of function research would have been permitted b/c if it escapes the laboratory then pandemics/epidemics/endemics can occur.  I understand the intellectual curioscity associated with gain of function research but opening a pandora's box can definitely have catastrophic outcomes and therefore should outweight the intellectual usefulness.  I think that this is why people want to know who funded the research and if it escaped from the lab in Wuhan (actually I am no long sure that point is debatable).  I personally belive that it inadvertantly escaped the lab but by that point the dye was cast

 

[STS]

Vaccines have been readily available for everyone over 12 in pretty most of the country since around May. We hit 500k in January IIRC. So not sure how the numbers work out. But a good portion of the deaths since May could have been avoidable with more widespread vaccinations. 

agree 100%...hell it has been available in the general population (over 18) since what January?  It is why I just can't understand why people won't take it...the stats from the hospitals is all that I would need to make a decision...I really just don't get what people are waiting for in this case but the more they are forced I would imagine the more that people will steadfastly resist

 

[JimG]

It is why I just can't understand why people won't take it...

Politics....which we can't discuss here. 

 

[Spur's Addiction]

IMO, there is a reason that this research was not done in the USA...there is no way gain of function research would have been permitted b/c if it escapes the laboratory then pandemics/epidemics/endemics can occur.  I understand the intellectual curioscity associated with gain of function research but opening a pandora's box can definitely have catastrophic outcomes and therefore should outweight the intellectual usefulness.  I think that this is why people want to know who funded the research and if it escaped from the lab in Wuhan (actually I am no long sure that point is debatable).  I personally belive that it inadvertantly escaped the lab but by that point the dye was cast

Ever heard of Fort Detrick in MD? Not saying that type of research goes on there, but if it's anywhere in the US, it's there. 

 

[STS]

Ever heard of Fort Detrick in MD? Not saying that type of research goes on there, but if it's anywhere in the US, it's there. 

I am unfamiliar but also would not be surprised if it is done somewhere in the US in secret but luckily the ethics of the scientific community in the USA considers it taboo...I understand why they do the research from the viewpoint of understanding the virulence of various pathogens but as we are seeing with whatever gains are made the risks are extremely high!  I asked my BIL (he is a virologist at the CDC) and he told me that he could never see what happened occurring in the US fwiw...but then again he may not know of course everything that goes on and the NAIAD is separate from the CDC under the umbrella of the HHS so there may be a good bit of non-overlap...whatever the case it obviously sucks!