Frank Is Gone

[Boca Bobby]

Well, that pretty much sums it up.

Other Coaches are watching.  Fire Frank, and barring there being someone who is just DYING to come to Columbia (like Shane Beamer was), it’s gonna mean you have to hire another D. Horn (I can’t believe I said that name), and disaster ensues.

Dawn Staley gets it.  That wasn’t politics talking.  That’s a Coach who knows how hard Frank is working saying he’s got the right stuff and he deserves one more year with healthy Frank and healthy players.

’Nuff said.

If Martin is let go there would be plenty of candidates interested. We dont know if they would turn out bad or good. To assume the worst though so we must hang onto Frank Martin is just talking yourself into accepting mediocrity.

There is no reason why we can't win. nice facilities, big time conference, lots of in-state talent. 

 

[doublea1971]

If Martin is let go there would be plenty of candidates interested. We dont know if they would turn out bad or good. To assume the worst though so we must hang onto Frank Martin is just talking yourself into accepting mediocrity.

There is no reason why we can't win. nice facilities, big time conference, lots of in-state talent. 

Fair enough. Does that then mean that you disagree with Dawn Staley, if you are accurately representing your POV in the statement above? (See the WLTX article in @kingofnerf's post above for reference).

I personally (as previously stated) don't believe that there would be plenty of high caliber candidates interested.  I think it sends a pretty bad message to the Coaching community if you fire Frank without giving him next year to prove himself.  We had the talent to succeed this year.  You will (likely) argue that it's an excuse to say that COVID brought about our misfortunes.  I will take the opposing viewpoint.

We shall soon enough see whether Ray Tanner and Bob Caslen agree with my assessment or not.

 

[Gary]

The one NCAAT in 9 years is misleading.   To be fair, you can't count Frank's first two years because he was building the program.   You also can't count last season because the post-season tournaments were cancelled for everyone.  And because of the Covid, I think it is unfair to count the season just past.  So that leaves five seasons that you can legitimately count.   In those five seasons we went to a Final Four, and won 4 NCAAT games.  Another season we went to the NIT and IMO, should have been in the NCAAT that year.   To me, given the long history of frustration for USC men's basketball, that isn't too bad.    I hope Frank stays.

 

[kingofnerf]

I heard them saying on 107.5 the other day that Frank wants a contract extension.

Ordinarily that would seem a ludicrous request following the season we just had, but it's not if he made the effort to coach the team despite his degraded physical condition due to Covid.

Maybe we commit to giving him and his staff retroactive back pay from last year's pay cuts at a certain point once the NCAA and the SEC assure us the attendance limitations will be gone and the contract extension contingent on meeting certain goals next season.

That way you don't waste time on a one-year extension if we have a really solid season and post-season run next year; do a multi-year extension instead.

 

[Gary]

I heard them saying on 107.5 the other day that Frank wants a contract extension.

Ordinarily that would seem a ludicrous request following the season we just had, but it's not if he made the effort to coach the team despite his degraded physical condition due to Covid.

Maybe we commit to giving him and his staff retroactive back pay from last year's pay cuts at a certain point once the NCAA and the SEC assure us the attendance limitations will be gone and the contract extension contingent on meeting certain goals next season.

That way you don't waste time on a one-year extension if we have a really solid season and post-season run next year; do a multi-year extension instead.

Why can't they add two, or even three years to Frank's contract, but with no buyout, or a very low buyout   That way, Frank could recruit, and if USC decided to part ways with him after a year or two, they wouldn't have to come up with a lot of money to pay him off.

 

[doublea1971]

I heard them saying on 107.5 the other day that Frank wants a contract extension.

Ordinarily that would seem a ludicrous request following the season we just had, but it's not if he made the effort to coach the team despite his degraded physical condition due to Covid.

Maybe we commit to giving him and his staff retroactive back pay from last year's pay cuts at a certain point once the NCAA and the SEC assure us the attendance limitations will be gone and the contract extension contingent on meeting certain goals next season.

That way you don't waste time on a one-year extension if we have a really solid season and post-season run next year; do a multi-year extension instead.

Frank may WANT a contract extension, but that does not mean he gets one right now.  It is entirely fair for the University to say "no" to that request, and to let him know that his performance in the 2021-22 season will allow him a two year extension (three year at the most).  If he performs in the next season the way that I believe he is still capable of doing, a short extension (with appropriate pay raise) is reasonable.  He deserves that respect at least.  

He's made it plain and clear that he would like to remain at USC as long as we will have him here.  I honestly think that he's got the team on solid ground right now, despite the problems we faced this year.  That may or may not be true, but only next year will tell that story.

 

[Gary]

Frank may WANT a contract extension, but that does not mean he gets one right now.  It is entirely fair for the University to say "no" to that request, and to let him know that his performance in the 2021-22 season will allow him a two year extension (three year at the most).  If he performs in the next season the way that I believe he is still capable of doing, a short extension (with appropriate pay raise) is reasonable.  He deserves that respect at least.  

He's made it plain and clear that he would like to remain at USC as long as we will have him here.  I honestly think that he's got the team on solid ground right now, despite the problems we faced this year.  That may or may not be true, but only next year will tell that story.

I would extend his contract 2/3 years with a small buyout.   Instead of a raise, I would give incentives for winning things: (20 wins,  making the NCAAT, etc.) .  

 

[gamecock88]

I think this whole thing puts Frank at an even larger disadvantage.   It will be used against him in recruiting along with the contract situation.   He’s in a difficult position now and the added attention from Staley may help in the immediate but may unintentionally hurt him in the long term.  She’s done great things at UofSC but doesn’t speak for the AD and should know better.  

 

[GregoryHouse]

If we keep him don’t make him a lame duck 

 

[Gary]

If we keep him don’t make him a lame duck 

Yes, I agree.  You have to extend his contract so he can recruit.  But you don't have to agree to a huge buyout for those extra years.  If you don't extend his contract, he will be a lame duck, if he remains the coach. 

Some people are saying USC is giving Frank time to find a new job so they don't have to fire him.  I'm having trouble buying that one.    I don't recall ever seeing any school do that.   I agree with David Cloninger that if USC has decided to fire Frank, they would have done that already.    I also agree with Dawn that if USC fires Frank after this season that has been damaged by Covid, and after Frank has had Covid twice, USC is going to look like a bunch of jerks and aholes to every basketball coach in the country.

 

[Boca Bobby]

The one NCAAT in 9 years is misleading.   To be fair, you can't count Frank's first two years because he was building the program.   You also can't count last season because the post-season tournaments were cancelled for everyone.  And because of the Covid, I think it is unfair to count the season just past.  So that leaves five seasons that you can legitimately count.   In those five seasons we went to a Final Four, and won 4 NCAAT games.  Another season we went to the NIT and IMO, should have been in the NCAAT that year.   To me, given the long history of frustration for USC men's basketball, that isn't too bad.    I hope Frank stays.

I am watching the NCAA Tournament today all day long. There are 68 teams that dealt with Covid and are having seasons that "count" . But you want ours to not count

 

[Boca Bobby]

If we keep him don’t make him a lame duck 

That is why they should fire him so they dont have to extend him. Why extend when you are just going to be on the hook for more years when it fails

 

[Gary]

I am watching the NCAA Tournament today all day long. There are 68 teams that dealt with Covid and are having seasons that "count" . But you want ours to not count

OK.  Then count it.  That would be six years.  One NCAAT,, four NCAAT WIns in 6 years.  That's better than any USC coach has ever done.

 

[Boca Bobby]

OK.  Then count it.  That would be six years.  One NCAAT,, four NCAAT WIns in 6 years.  That's better than any USC coach has ever done.

Martin has been the coach for 9 years. 1 tournament in 9 years is not better than any USC coach has ever done not even close.

Under Martin USC has never even reached the semifinals of the SEC Tournament not once in 9 years. The final four run was fun but it was the biggest fluke and we are going to suffer through 10+ years of mediocrity just because he had that 1 miracle run. SEC teams should expect runs like that. You know Florida, Tenn, and Kentucky do. 

 

[Gary]

If USC wants to fire Frank Martin, here's how I picture the conversation going: 

Tanner:  Frank, we have decided to let you go and find a new Coach, but we want to help you find a new job before we announce anything.

Martin:  Thanks anyway Ray, but just pay me the $6.5 million you owe me and i'll find my own job.   i have an agent, and I'm well  known in the coaching community.  I don't need your help to find a job.

 

[Swayin]

OK.  Then count it.  That would be six years.  One NCAAT,, four NCAAT WIns in 6 years.  That's better than any USC coach has ever done.

Just to play devil's advocate, I'm not sure how you can't count his first couple of years because he was rebuilding. I think it's fair to take away last season but the bottom line, it's eight years, 1 tourney, and a conference record that is 18 games below .500. And while I totally respect that you guys are coming from a place of wanting the program to improve, the idea of extending a guy with the record above, and who is on the hot seat because of that record, is baffling to me. I have tremendous respect for Frank as a person, and it seems he's going to get another year. So be it. 

 

[Gary]

Just to play devil's advocate, I'm not sure how you can't count his first couple of years because he was rebuilding. I think it's fair to take away last season but the bottom line, it's eight years, 1 tourney, and a conference record that is 18 games below .500. And while I totally respect that you guys are coming from a place of wanting the program to improve, the idea of extending a guy with the record above, and who is on the hot seat because of that record, is baffling to me. I have tremendous respect for Frank as a person, and it seems he's going to get another year. So be it. 

Count whatever you want.  You can even count last season when nobody went to a post-season tournament, if you want to.

 

[kingofnerf]

To be honest, I really checked emotionally out of this season once I realized I couldn't go to the actual home games.

Watching sports last year was a good way to take your mind off of other stuff, but it's gotten kinda creepy without the fans.

I'm ready for things to get back to normal with our teams.

 

[Swayin]

Count whatever you want.  You can even count last season when nobody went to a post-season tournament, if you want to.

I said pretty clearly above that last year can't be counted against him in terms of making the tournament. But pulling two years of his record is just magical thinking and stat cherry-picking at its finest - his record is his record.

 

[markymark550]

The first 2 years count on the record, but we shouldn't use those to judge his time here. With as big of a dumpster fire as we were, we all knew it would be a multi-year job to get us competitive again. It was completely unrealistic to expect any kind of postseason those first 2 years.