Frank Is Gone

[kingofnerf]

Shuler is a Senior that was recruited by former Ole Miss coach Andy Kennedy, not Kermit Davis.

Romello White is a grad student transfer from Arizona State.

AK was fired because he never filled the void left by Stefan Moody.  They just couldn't put together the wins.

Were it not for Covid, I would ordinarily say both Shuler and White will be gone next year and we would also be a different better team next year as well. 

Hopefully that is the case.  Do you think Shuler and White will be back next year?

 

[Gary]

I hope we get a decision this week on whether or not Frank will return.  If Frank leaves, I think some of the current team is going to leave as well, and that is a concern because I would like to keep some of the current guys.   Such as, Minott, Leveque, Frink, McCreary, Hannibal, Couisnard, Bryant, and the four recruits.    If a new coach is hired, then he will have to decide which of the current players and recruits he wants to try to convince to be on the team.  

There is a 6-10 kid who is from Columbia, who started college at College of Charleston, went one year to juco, and then to St. Johns and has announced he is in the transfer portal.   I don't know if he has a destination in mind, but depending on who will be on the USC team next year, this kid might be someone to consider.  I understand he is pretty good.   Averaged 21 points and 11 rebounds (for 40 minutes) this season for St. Johns.  

I also read that arguably the top 2 high school juniors in SC are currently leaning toward going to college out of state, but if Boynton were to be named HC at USC, that might change.  FWIW.

 

[USCGMCK]

Being Captain Obvious is difficult when it comes to The University of South Carolina Athletics. So I left room from Frank to have a completely new 6 year deal, just in case all else failed. However, no one picked up on that.

Tongue planted firmly in cheek. 

 

[Longhaul]

I guess I have become that guy who does not really care if he stays or if he goes.  The final 4 and the couple of years around it were really good.  The other years have seemed to have been lined with a lot of ifs and buts and not much else.  I don't dislike Frank and I do agree that his players really do like and respect how him and he genuinely cares about them beyond the game.  My expectation for next year if he returns will be very low as each year in the past few, I've felt like we were going to be really good only to be disappointed.  I hope if he does return things come together like many think they will, I am just not very optimistic at this point.  

 

[markymark550]

That's an interesting development and leads me to believe Martin will be back next season.

 

[Gary]

That's an interesting development and leads me to believe Martin will be back next season.

I'd be fine with Frank being back.   And if Saunders really is going to talk to Frank's staff at this time, it very well could mean Frank will be back.  I'm good with that.  It might also mean that Frank is going to be the new Cincinnati coach and he wants to try to get Saunders to stay there.   But, I have not heard that there is a coaching vacancy at Cincinnati, so I'm just guessing.   Hope we know soon what is going to happen.

 

[doublea1971]

That's an interesting development and leads me to believe Martin will be back next season.

Yes... I agree.  On both counts (interesting development and Martin being back).  The talk with another transfer (Saunders) shows that there are a few transfers expected to be hitting the portal soon, or incoming players who won't actually make it through the admissions process, in play.  Knock on Saunders when he was coming out of HS was that he was not a good outside shooter.  He WAS/is a great PG, however, as he gave 5* Cole Anthony (former UNC, now NBA) a run for his money during a national HS invitational.

I said before, I'm truly convinced that Kornblut's talk about Coach Martin is coming from people he knows who are Carolina fans, but are not on the "inside track"... they're just speaking hearsay.  The stuff from the Post & Courier has a little bit more credibility, but again, I think it was just insider horse trading... nothing reported from a substantive source.  When you have to quote "anonymous sources", rather than a national outlet/pundit, that typically in the sports world means you've jumped the gun.

Since we're now mid-way through the week, I have to assume that Coach Martin and Tanner have had their conversation (or at least had an INITIAL conversation).  As we've heard no news about Frank being fired/let go/replaced, I can only make the assumption that he's going to be around for one more season.

 

[markymark550]

Yes... I agree.  On both counts (interesting development and Martin being back).  The talk with another transfer (Saunders) shows that there are a few transfers expected to be hitting the portal soon, or incoming players who won't actually make it through the admissions process, in play.  Knock on Saunders when he was coming out of HS was that he was not a good outside shooter.  He WAS/is a great PG, however, as he gave 5* Cole Anthony (former UNC, now NBA) a run for his money during a national HS invitational.

I said before, I'm truly convinced that Kornblut's talk about Coach Martin is coming from people he knows who are Carolina fans, but are not on the "inside track"... they're just speaking hearsay.  The stuff from the Post & Courier has a little bit more credibility, but again, I think it was just insider horse trading... nothing reported from a substantive source.  When you have to quote "anonymous sources", rather than a national outlet/pundit, that typically in the sports world means you've jumped the gun.

Since we're now mid-way through the week, I have to assume that Coach Martin and Tanner have had their conversation (or at least had an INITIAL conversation).  As we've heard no news about Frank being fired/let go/replaced, I can only make the assumption that he's going to be around for one more season.

I agree 100% with the last 2 paragraphs. The longer there's no resolution the better the chances that Martin stays. The coaching carousel is in full effect now, so we shouldn't wait to make a move (if that's what is decided). You run the risk of letting your top potential replacements go to other jobs.

As for Saunders, If he's a good, true point guard, I'd take him even if he doesn't shoot that well. We could use a guy that penitrates the lane and either dish to an open man or hit the 8-10 ft floater. Another guy I would contact is Phlandrous Fleming at Charleston Southern. He put his name in the portal today. He's a flat-out scorer and, as someone who follows the Big South pretty closely, was really impressed by him.

 

[markymark550]

I'd be fine with Frank being back.   And if Saunders really is going to talk to Frank's staff at this time, it very well could mean Frank will be back.  I'm good with that.  It might also mean that Frank is going to be the new Cincinnati coach and he wants to try to get Saunders to stay there.   But, I have not heard that there is a coaching vacancy at Cincinnati, so I'm just guessing.   Hope we know soon what is going to happen.

I'd be good with Martin coming back as well. Unless something has happened in the last 2 hours or so, John Brannen is still the coach at Cincinnati. I have seen some stuff on Twitter where their fans want a new coach, but it’s pretty much just "I wish" posts. Have also seen some chatter about fans wanting Martin to go to UNLV, which makes some sense. They wanted him a couple years ago, so they might try again. 

 

[Gary]

If any of the current players knew that Frank is going to leave, I'm guessing that at least one of them would have announced his plans to transfer by now.   As far as I know, none of them have.  Does that indicate that Frank is staying?  Maybe.

Could Frank have made such a good argument for keeping him that Tanner and Caslen decided to give him more time?  I don't know, but I suppose it's possible.  

 

[kingofnerf]

If any of the current players knew that Frank is going to leave, I'm guessing that at least one of them would have announced his plans to transfer by now.   As far as I know, none of them have.  Does that indicate that Frank is staying?  Maybe.

Could Frank have made such a good argument for keeping him that Tanner and Caslen decided to give him more time?  I don't know, but I suppose it's possible.  

It's not just the players now.

But with the future of Frank Martin in doubt, News19 asked Staley during a Zoom interview to provide her thoughts on Martin and how it's been working with him for these past nine years. It's safe to say Staley is in Frank's corner.

"Obviously, I hear all the junk that is on social media and I say before you jump off and condemn someone, you have to understand what coaches go through," she said.

"Yes, we are in a results-based profession. But there are a lot of intricacies that go with being successful. I think when Frank's teams are healthy, when he is healthy, he puts a product on the floor that we can all be proud of."

Staley's program had a brief pause in January due to COVID-19 whereas the men were hit with two major work stoppages and Martin himself had a second positive test in that same month that led to him missing the LSU game and he admitted thoughts of opting out to focus on his health did enter his mind. He ultimately did return courtside to finish out the season. Staley's opinion is if Martin is let go, that will raise more than a few eyebrows in the coaching fraternity.

"If you get rid of Frank Martin, every coach, every candidate that you're going to bring in here, they're watching it too," she said.

"They're watching how we react to what's happening here. Frank's given us some great years and I think there's a lot more in the tank. You know I support him in that way. I support him publicly. I support him privately. I just hope that we're not in a position that, well, I'm just going to let the powers that be talk about that. My answer to your question is that I support Frank Martin."

https://www.wltx.com/article/sports/gamecocks/101-38cbcbf2-fd1e-47b9-9be4-7173347b3fe2

#1 has spoken.  

 

[doublea1971]

It's not just the players now.

https://www.wltx.com/article/sports/gamecocks/101-38cbcbf2-fd1e-47b9-9be4-7173347b3fe2

#1 has spoken.  

Well, that pretty much sums it up.

Other Coaches are watching.  Fire Frank, and barring there being someone who is just DYING to come to Columbia (like Shane Beamer was), it’s gonna mean you have to hire another D. Horn (I can’t believe I said that name), and disaster ensues.

Dawn Staley gets it.  That wasn’t politics talking.  That’s a Coach who knows how hard Frank is working saying he’s got the right stuff and he deserves one more year with healthy Frank and healthy players.

’Nuff said.

 

[USCMM]

Well, that pretty much sums it up.

Other Coaches are watching.  Fire Frank, and barring there being someone who is just DYING to come to Columbia (like Shane Beamer was), it’s gonna mean you have to hire another D. Horn (I can’t believe I said that name), and disaster ensues.

Dawn Staley gets it.  That wasn’t politics talking.  That’s a Coach who knows how hard Frank is working saying he’s got the right stuff and he deserves one more year with healthy Frank and healthy players.

’Nuff said.

Yeah I've been saying for a while that it would be a political nightmare to fire Coach Martin after this season. Just imagine the headlines... "Frank Martin, former final four coach, gets fired from USC after a less than stellar year due to contracting Covid-19" The media would roast us!

 

[Spur's Addiction]

Well, that pretty much sums it up.

Other Coaches are watching.  Fire Frank, and barring there being someone who is just DYING to come to Columbia (like Shane Beamer was), it’s gonna mean you have to hire another D. Horn (I can’t believe I said that name), and disaster ensues.

Dawn Staley gets it.  That wasn’t politics talking.  That’s a Coach who knows how hard Frank is working saying he’s got the right stuff and he deserves one more year with healthy Frank and healthy players.

’Nuff said.

ughhh.

But I agree. If you have someone on the hook that wants to be here and will bring in new energy, it makes more sense to get rid of Frank. But to fire him and hire  just hire a guy and hope for the best, it's harder to justify. 

 

[markymark550]

Yeah I've been saying for a while that it would be a political nightmare to fire Coach Martin after this season. Just imagine the headlines... "Frank Martin, former final four coach, gets fired from USC after a less than stellar year due to contracting Covid-19" The media would roast us!

I don't think we really have to worry about the media if we fired Frank. It might be bad for a couple of days, but the fast news cycles would make people forget quicker. For the most part, I think the local media are on board with keeping Martin, but understand why we would make a change. Other than maybe a couple who question it, the national media doesn't really care about USC athletics. I think that @doublea1971 hit it on the head with regards to other coaches taking notice. That is what we really have to worry about. A poor perception of our athletics program among the coaching fraternity is definitely worse than any media hit we might take.

 

[Gary]

No news from USC.  No players leaving.   Dawn Staley voicing her support for Frank. (She has probably talked to Tanner about this)  Former USC players voicing their support for Frank.   Recruiting continues.     All of that seems to be indicating that Frank is staying.    ?

 

[doublea1971]

No news from USC.  No players leaving.   Dawn Staley voicing her support for Frank. (She has probably talked to Tanner about this)  Former USC players voicing their support for Frank.   Recruiting continues.     All of that seems to be indicating that Frank is staying.    ?

Don't count on that, @Gary.  I would tend to believe that we'll see some names appear in the portal within the next two weeks.  Frank needs to know what Tanner's decision on him is (which he probably already does), and then Frank will need to meet with his players (each of them, one-on-one) to discuss their future with the team.  One can only assume that we will see at least 2 transfers, and likely AJ will test the NBA waters again.  So just because we haven't seen movement yet, is not an indicator that will continue to be the case.

 

[Gary]

Don't count on that, @Gary.  I would tend to believe that we'll see some names appear in the portal within the next two weeks.  Frank needs to know what Tanner's decision on him is (which he probably already does), and then Frank will need to meet with his players (each of them, one-on-one) to discuss their future with the team.  One can only assume that we will see at least 2 transfers, and likely AJ will test the NBA waters again.  So just because we haven't seen movement yet, is not an indicator that will continue to be the case.

I expect two or more players to leave.   My point was that if the players already knew Frank is leaving, some of them likely would have announced their departures also by now.   Since none have publicly said they are leaving, I assume that either they don't know whether Frank is leaving, or they know he is not leaving.  I agree with you that some will leave.

 

[Gary]

David Cloninger says if USC was determined to fire Frank, he would have been fired already.

 

[doublea1971]

David Cloninger says if USC was determined to fire Frank, he would have been fired already.

That’s what I’ve been saying all along.  (Remember my sarcastic comment about Kornblut at Applebee’s?). These taking heads in the Columbia sports scene have shown over the last number of years that their “sources” usually don’t know what they’re taking about.  If it doesn’t come from USC’s PR team/Jeff Stensland, it’s probably an unsubstantiated rumor.

I typically get more truth from speaking with students on campus (who seem to ACTUALLY be in the know) than what I read from Kornblut or the Post and Courier.  I guess the athletes talk to their friends, who talk to other friends, and it turns out to be pretty close to the truth, if not 100% accurate.