Will Frank Return?

[Gary]

Phil Kornblut said that he had talked with two people with connections to the university who told him that they thought Frank was going to be replaced as coach.    

I have thought that USC would give Frank another year because of Covid.   But with his contract down to 2 years and Tanner saying he won't extend it, and now this information, it seems to indicate that a change might be coming soon.    Does anyone have any info to add? 

 

[GregoryHouse]

I certainly hope he does

 

[Gary]

I certainly hope he does

I always hate to see any coach replaced.   So I have mixed feelings about replacing Frank.     I am concerned about who his replacement might be.

If they do change coaches, it will be a good time to change some of the players.   I think some of the current players need to find a new home and the perfect time to do that is when a coaching change occurs.  We'll see what happens in the next few weeks.

 

[Cockyandproud]

I always hate to see any coach replaced.   So I have mixed feelings about replacing Frank.     I am concerned about who his replacement might be.

If they do change coaches, it will be a good time to change some of the players.   I think some of the current players need to find a new home and the perfect time to do that is when a coaching change occurs.  We'll see what happens in the next few weeks.

Why would you be concerned?  It can’t get much worse. 

 

[Gary]

Why would you be concerned?  It can’t get much worse. 

This season has been bad, imo.  I wouldn't call any season bad that produces a winning record.   Last season was cut short because of Covid, so we can't know how it might have turned out.     People have different opinions about makes a season bad.   

I suppose I shouldn't be concerned as to who might replace Frank.   I have no input into that.   Tanner won't be asking my opinion.  I hope its someone I can like.   If it happens.

 

[doublea1971]

Unless Frank’s health is a continued issue, and he had Anya’s blessing to bow out, I don’t see him leaving after the merciful close of this season.

He’s too in love with basketball and with Columbia to go anywhere unless he’s got a reason to retire (i.e. - continued health problems).

I think Kornblut’s talking out of his usual “sources”... the people he sat next to at Applebee’s who were not Clemson fans.  That’s the only way he gets true Gamecock “scoops”. (And yes... that was sarcasm, just in case there was any doubt).

 

[Gary]

Unless Frank’s health is a continued issue, and he had Anya’s blessing to bow out, I don’t see him leaving after the merciful close of this season.

He’s too in love with basketball and with Columbia to go anywhere unless he’s got a reason to retire (i.e. - continued health problems).

I think Kornblut’s talking out of his usual “sources”... the people he sat next to at Applebee’s who were not Clemson fans.  That’s the only way he gets true Gamecock “scoops”. (And yes... that was sarcasm, just in case there was any doubt).

I don't expect Frank to volunteer to leave on his own after this season.  And I'm not convinced that Tanner will fire him.   But it could happen.   A lot of people would like for Frank to be replaced.   I don't know how many of them have influence with Tanner, or other important people at USC.  I see lots of people online hoping he will be replaced.

I have listened to Phil Kornblut for years.  I think he's a pretty good guy and I think he is telling the truth about the information he has received.  I guess you don't respect him, which is ok with me, but I do like and respect Phil. 

 

[Ledcock]

I don't expect Frank to volunteer to leave on his own after this season.  And I'm not convinced that Tanner will fire him.   But it could happen.   A lot of people would like for Frank to be replaced.   I don't know how many of them have influence with Tanner, or other important people at USC.  I see lots of people online hoping he will be replaced.

I have listened to Phil Kornblut for years.  I think he's a pretty good guy and I think he is telling the truth about the information he has received.  I guess you don't respect him, which is ok with me, but I do like and respect Phil. 

I don't care what anybody else says.  My opinion is Frank needs to go.  He is making too much money to produce what we are seeing and have been seeing.  Time to roll the dice on the next guy.

 

[GregoryHouse]

Frank is a good coach who has had a disastrous year - in terms of the won-loss record. and the health of his team and himself. It is not unlike the football season - except that Frank had to deal with a lot more, and had better success prior to the covid season.

I like Frank and the players we have (mostly). We could be successful if we encouraged a few guys to leave, brought in the current recruiting class (with a grad transfer possibly) and Frank had a full season to work with.

But there is some odd stuff going on. Frank's health is a huge question - getting covid twice, the allopecia, the weight gain, the Bob Huggins dress code, etc. He has also seemed to make some odd personnel and substitution decisions this year. In the past, there appeared to be a method to his madness - this year, he seems to just be throwing the proverbial sh*t up against the wall.

If this is a ploy for negotiating leverage and reducing the buyout, good for Ray. If he wants to run off our most successful coach since the other Frank when a lot of the problems are due to covid hitting the team hard, then not so good. 

I agree with you.

also in my opinion the Will Muschamp situation was different from the Frank Martin situation because Will Muschamp has proven to be a bad game day coach at Florida and at South Carolina. The school did not need to continue to have him on the sidelines being mediocre to horrible.

Frank Martin has had success here and at Kansas State.

i think can still do wonders as a head coach but he does need a star player or two. He needs a Sindarius Thornwell or a Michael Beasley...he’ll even a Chris Silva as a cornerstone to his teams. Nobody stepped forward to fill that need this year. We may not have star caliber player on the roster yet even if we have some very good and inconsistent role players

 

[Gary]

I wonder if Frank doesn't play certain guys because he likes them instead of because of what they bring to the team (Moss, Woods, Minaya, Nelson).      I don't understand some of his decisions on who plays.  

Even with the problems this season, and even with only making the NCAA one time in his tenure, Frank  is arguably still the most successful men's basketball coach since McGuire.

If Frank is retained,  room on the roster for 4 new guys will have to be made.   Assuming that Woods leaves and Lawson goes pro, that means at least two other guys will have to leave.

 

[Longhaul]

It bothers me a little that in post game comments Frank never really mentions coaching it is always the players that did not do their jobs.  At some point you have to ask, why are they not doing their jobs.  I guess part of the answer is that we don't have enough good players to sit people for extended periods of time when they are not playing the way they have been asked to play, but it just seems I don't ever hear from the coach, "we need to coach better"  

 

[doublea1971]

I think we lose more than two - and it is not a given that Lawson is gone to the pros. If he does go, it might be that he leaves through the portal to play for a contender - especially if Frank is let go.

Unfortunately, none of the four recruits is a slam dunk guy - I looked at their film, and the best player is the one that has not signed yet, IMO. So we need to keep our current guys and hope they improve with a full, unrestricted offseason,

I think Frank does play the guys that follow his directions and play hard in practice. Unfortunately, some guys are gameday players that do not go hard in practice, leaving us with less talented guys on the court. And since Frank focuses on D and rebounding, that leaves us without reliable shooters on the court. 

Moss, Minaya, Couisnard and Woods have all struggled mightily with their strokes. Anderson is a guy that could help with three pointers, but he must not listen in practice.

I'm not 100% convinced that it's a practice thing.  I think it's a team fit and ability to match the level of SEC play.

Remember, Anderson got the start against Tennessee on 2/17.  Prior to that game, he had 2 minutes vs. Ole Miss (2/13), 0 minutes vs. 'Bama (2/9), 4 minutes vs. Miss. St. (2/6) and 0 minutes vs. Fla. (2/3).  He returned to a game vs UK (3/6) - 5 minutes.

Contrast that against Nathan Nelson.  

Nelson has started in two games:

• with 11 minutes on the court vs. Mizzou (2/20),
  
• 17 minutes on the court in the Ms. St. game (2/24),
  

Nelson played 4 minutes vs. UK (3/6), 3 minutes vs. Arky (3/2), 1 minute vs. UGA (2/27), 25 minutes vs. Tenn (2/17), 7 minutes vs. Ole Miss (2/13), 2 mins. vs. 'Bama (2/9), 7 minutes vs. Miss St. (2/6), and 13 minutes vs. Fla. (2/3).

If you look at the dates/games above, you'll note that Anderson and Nelson were both playing in games between February 3rd and February 17th - the Tennessee game where Anderson started.  After that, Anderson doesn't see the court again until vs. UK on the 6th of this month.  Nelson, on the other hand, continues to play AND gets two starts.  Heck, even Mike Green has gotten to play in games recently when Anderson did not.

The other thing of note to me... When Anderson got the start vs. Tennessee, he played SIX total minutes.  Nelson, who did not start, was subbed in to the game (for Anderson) in the first half, playing extensive minutes in two stints.  Anderson returned to the starting lineup for the 2nd half, Nelson was subbed in to the game (for Anderson) and again played extensive minutes in two stints.  Nelson played 24 total minutes.  Anderson played 6 total.  Nelson would then go on to start in the two subsequent games.

I'm of the opinion that Frank Martin is helping Trey Anderson to find the door (well, the portal) and to make his way out of a Gamecock uniform following the SEC Tournament.  Nathan Nelson is NOT starting material (and as we all know, is a walk-on), but I believe, by way of Nathan Nelson, Frank has been helping some of the other guys to see that their services are not up to snuff, and won't fit in SEC play unless they up their game.

As I've previously mentioned, I fully expect Trey Anderson to be gone after this season is over.  Benson is another candidate, though I believe he's been sitting on the bench, for no other reason than to give him a season to develop his skills.  Moss has gotten a LOT of minutes (and starts in the last 5 games), but he's not contributing as a scorer.  He's my other likely candidate for being gone (again by way of the transfer portal).  Woods could be an asset if he returns, but I'm doubtful we will see that happen.  I also am fearful that Leveque will look for greener pastures.  He's going to take more time to develop, but I think he has tremendous upside - in much the same way that Chris Silva developed during his time at USC.  McCreary and Frink are better players in the immediate term than Leveque, but both of them are defensive liabilities (due to too many unnecessary fouls).  I hope that both Cousinard and Hannibal will return.  I'm a little concerned with Cousinard's mindset, and that his issues in shooting may be related to coaching issues (hopefully, that is not the case... I don't want to lose him)

Long story made even longer... Anderson, Moss, Leveque, and perhaps Benson are IMO likely candidates for transfer after the 2020-21 season has concluded.

 

[Swayin]

This program not only didn't show progress this year, it bottomed out, losing 9 of the last 11 ... some you can put on COVID, but the most, IMO, has to be laid at the feet of Frank. I mean we aren't just not tourney material right now, we lost our last two games by 56 points, including a 28-point whipping to a team that had a losing record.  

The trajectory is not good. And I have no answers.

 

[Gary]

I think it would be a mistake to fire Frank now.   If there had been no Covid, then just based on the wins and losses, I could understand firing him.  But I think firing Frank now will be unfair.  Covid has had too much of an impact on the program to judge this season in a traditional way.  So, I think they should keep Frank and see what happens next year when hopefully Covid will not be an issue.   

Frank isn't a guy who runs players off unless they have off the court issues.   And he isn't a guy who recruits a player unless he expects a scholarship will be available for them.  So, that leads me to believe that Frank is EXPECTING some current players to leave.   I think he expected Lawson to go pro.   I think he expected Woods to not be on scholarship next season.   And it means he expects at least 2 other guys to leave.   Who those 2 guys are is unknown to me at this time.   I expect we will find out soon.   

 

[doublea1971]

Love the thoughts, aa. I get that Trey Anderson is being pushed towards the portal, but the question is - why? He started as a PF against Mizzou earlier this year, and this was the write-up:

Anderson easily had the best game of his career. He scored 17 points in 24 minutes, and shot 7-9 including 2-3 from behind the arc. Anderson has just 13 points total in the rest of his career.

He also had five rebounds and two assists, plus good D - making him the  star of the game.

The next game - against Auburn - he played four minutes and missed his only shot, a three-pointer. Then you listed some of his other brief appearances - while Nelson, who has a nice three point shot but has never had an overall game like Anderson had against Mizzou (and who is a walk-on), got a lot of minutes. Nelson has little upside and is gone after this season.

We have a team with a glaring weakness - a lack of shooters, especially from three. Anderson's strength is shooting, especially from three, and he has some athletic ability and a lot of upside. Which is why I say that Frank has had some questionable personnel decisions this year.

If Frank goes, we will see a much different team next year - more leaving and a likely grad transfer or two coming in. I am just puzzled that Anderson did not get more of a look this year - when we could have used someone with his shooting touch.

This is a minor point, but Anderson did NOT start vs. Mizzou (on 1/19).  He was subbed in at the 11:05 mark of the first half (for Keyshawn).

I would note, to answer your "why" question, that Anderson went from the best career game to 4 minutes vs. Auburn.  During the time he was in the game, he played like a Lone Ranger... simply was not in tune with anyone else on the squad.  (I distinctly remember that game because it followed such a great game vs. Mizzou.  I went back and looked at the play-by-play box score, just to be certain, and yes... it was as I remember).

After the Auburn game, he had 4 minutes vs. UGA (1/27), 3 minutes vs. Vandy (1/30), and DNP vs. Fla. (2/3).  You can see from my prior post that he went from team savior vs. Mizzou in the aforementioned game to doghouse and then back to starter again vs. Tennessee.  What I see is that Anderson was given his opportunities, but did not sell himself to the staff (not just to Frank Martin).

He's a good kid... don't get me wrong.  I've spoken with him on a few occasions.  Truly a nice guy.  He's just not able to play at the speed of the SEC.  He's not going to be consistent in his defense vs. SEC opponents, and he's shown that he's inconsistent on offense as well.  It's the defensive issues that drive Coach Martin's decisions most of the time, but I think that most of Anderson's choice of shots when he's been given the chance (other than the 17 point showing against Mizzou) have been bad choices.  You can see it if you look at the play-by-play stat sheets.  He gets yanked after jacking up a 3 pointer at a bad time, or gets yanked when he commits a stupid foul and puts the opponent in the bonus.

I see it as Coach Martin actually being quite fair to the kid... he's been given chances to shine and to lead his teammates.  He does not evidence the skillset, nor the on-court leadership qualities needed to succeed at this level.  Pretty much cut and dry to me, and I truly am trying to be objective and give Trey the benefit of the doubt.

 

[kingofnerf]

Frank said today in his media availability that "one guy wasn't allowed to play" when he was listing the reasons for the poor record.

I hope Frink doesn't have any serious health issues.

 

[doublea1971]

aa, I am picking up what you are putting down. But here is the other side. 

Shooters need to be given a little freedom. If they are pulled whenever they take a shot that Frank does not want, then they will start second guessing and become tentative. Which may be a lot of our team's problem, not just Anderson's.

Anderson will never develop if he does not get some minutes and be encouraged to shoot. The one time that it happened, he had a great game. But it has not happened before or since - because he did not get the chance.

Anderson is a 3 that was used as a 4 and a 5 out of necessity. I think he is athletic and tall enough to be a 3 in the SEC, and he has the stroke. If Frank insists on playing  guys because of D, rebounding, and taking only the shots that Frank wants, then we will continue to suck on Offense. 

And the last I looked, the D and rebounding were not too good either.

and likewise, I get what you are saying @Ace Dilcock.  I think the big difference between you and I, is that I don't believe that Anderson is the pure shooter that you do.  

I also disagree slightly with what you posit about Anderson developing if he's given minutes and encouraged to shoot.  Remember, the bulk of an athlete's ability to shoot comes from time in the gym and repetition, not game action.  The pure shooters have spent hours, even years of their time in the gym getting a feel for their stroke.  They know when it's going in, and we can TELL when it's going in as a viewer because it's mechanically perfect (or close to perfect).  Having a guy in your face does not stop your stroke from being the same.  It might alter how you TAKE the shot, or WHERE you take the shot, but an opposing defender does not change HOW you shoot, if you're a pure shooter.

We, honestly, don't have many pure shooters on our team, unfortunately.  In fact, we have guys with pretty unorthodox shooting that populate a great portion of our team.  That's why we're so bad at the FT line (with the lone exception of Trae Hannibal)... we're inconsistent in how we actually shoot the ball mechanically.  Just watch Keyshawn shoot, for instance... his arms are all over the place with where he starts his shot from.  McCreary is another one.

The best pure shooters we have right now are AJ Lawson and Nathan Nelson.  AJ is an all-around athlete which is why he gets his hype.  Nelson is a lot like Hassani Gravett (who used to drive people crazy, but you at least knew he was going to make things rim in and out, if it didn't go in).  If you give him his spot, he can catch and shoot all day long.  I'll throw in Trae Hannibal as a "shooter", but mostly from the FT line - he doesn't take enough 3 pointers, and his overall FG % is below .500.  Last season, I would have thought Cousinard would fit into that category, but something got inside his head this year (I wouldn't be surprised to learn he had an injury to a shoulder or arm that he was fighting through this year... it made little to no sense to me why he has struggled the way he did).

Anderson is a good shooter.  Don't hear me wrong.  He's just not going to get significantly better as a shooter with game time... it's mechanical with him.  If he gets in the gym for 2-3 hours a day for 3-4 months and takes the time to get a "feel" for his stroke - what he's doing or not doing that make his shots go in... THEN I would say give Anderson the opportunity.  He had a reputation for such coming out of high school, but has not shown that in either practice or in games.  Right now, he's inconsistent with the shooting (which ones he takes, where he takes them, and how his form looks when he's taking them), but more importantly, he's not contributing to the team play.  It's the Lone Ranger thing I talked about before.  AND there's also the defensive presence.  I will say, on behalf of Anderson, that his defensive efforts looked MUCH better at the end of the season than they did mid-season.  So, from that standpoint, he was starting to get used to Frank Martin's system, which is a good thing.

Anyway... I don't want to belabor this Anderson conversation.  We're talking the same thing, but just from a different perspective.  I doubt that we'll quite see eye to eye, but you're welcome to provide me information to change my mind.  Again... great kid.  Just not the right fit for the Gamecocks, in my mind - especially with this weird COVID-crazed season we had.

 

[LBC]

I hope Ray has already reached out to Anthony Grant at Dayton to see if he would be interested in getting back into the SEC 

 

[Gary]

I hope Ray has already reached out to Anthony Grant at Dayton to see if he would be interested in getting back into the SEC 

Grant and Martin are good friends.   If usc fires Frank I don't think any of Frank's friends would take the USC job.  They will all view firing Frank as unfair and a sign that USC cannot be trusted.