Evaluating Muschamp tenure at the helm so far

[Mr Ed]

So champ won 9 games with the deleted roster that spurrier left which was so bad he needed to do a complete rebuild? It's like Krispy Kreme in this conversation.

 My argument all along is that in year four our Senior’s are made up of that first recruiting class.   Keep in mind that Spurrier left mid season and there wasn’t a whole lot of worthwhile recruiting going on.  So it’s not like Muschamp came into a situation with quality recruits already onboard that he just needed to hold on to.  He had a lot of work to do and had to take who he could get.  This is why year 4 can be a challenge.  Obviously every coaching transition is different.

I think Muschamp did a good job with who he had and who he added quicklyand the schedule helped a lot too the first two years.  But I also think this team happens to be better than the 9 win team which in all honesty wasn’t a very good team at all.  

 

[dreammachine]

 My argument all along is that in year four our Senior’s are made up of that first recruiting class.   Keep in mind that Spurrier left mid season and there wasn’t a whole lot of worthwhile recruiting going on.  So it’s not like Muschamp came into a situation with quality recruits already onboard that he just needed to hold on to.  He had a lot of work to do and had to take who he could get.  This is why year 4 can be a challenge.  Obviously every coaching transition is different.

I think Muschamp did a good job with who he had and who he added quicklyand the schedule helped a lot too the first two years.  But I also think this team happens to be better than the 9 win team which in all honesty wasn’t a very good team at all.  

Mr. Ed, trying to reason with "Sporkyie" is like having a verbal sparring session with an unarmed man!  His hate for Coach Muschamp & staff is all he cares for and nothing else.  He also likes Dunkin Doughnuts!!!  

 

[Sporkgod50]

 My argument all along is that in year four our Senior’s are made up of that first recruiting class.   Keep in mind that Spurrier left mid season and there wasn’t a whole lot of worthwhile recruiting going on.  So it’s not like Muschamp came into a situation with quality recruits already onboard that he just needed to hold on to.  He had a lot of work to do and had to take who he could get.  This is why year 4 can be a challenge.  Obviously every coaching transition is different.

I think Muschamp did a good job with who he had and who he added quicklyand the schedule helped a lot too the first two years.  But I also think this team happens to be better than the 9 win team which in all honesty wasn’t a very good team at all.  

Wait so when champ won early at USC it was because he's a great coach that performed miracles with horrible players and when Mac nearly beat the number one team in the country, it's because the previous coach left him with great players? That doesn't seem consistent at all, but wait it's ok because transitions are always different so there's no need to apply consistent evaluation. In related news, 2+2 is now equal to 5.

Here's the other in my mind harder to explain position you've taken. Mac took a mediocre team and nearly beat the number one team in the country. As noted above, you think that man is only winning because of the great position Fedora let him in. (Most coaches get fired because they've built a great team...) You think champ won early despite being left a weak team, because he's a great coach. However, you don't think we have any chance against UGA every with the be week for cwm to prepare his team. Unless we return to the logic doesn't need to consistent argument I can't understand how any man could hold these opposing positions.

 

[Sporkgod50]

Maybe, they (Florida) haven’t looked great.  They beat Miami in the same manner UNC beat Miami, and they darn near lost to Kentucky.  So I think we are very close with them.  And it’s a home game, so that one seems like a good opportunity.  I’m concerned about App State out of the group most consider to be probable wins.  They look good and beat UNC and are putting up big offensive numbers.  That’s not a gimme.  

It looks to me like we will struggle mightily against anyone with a strong pass rush.  That kind of seems like what’s dictating our offensive success or failure right now.

Honestly I think TAMU is a shot for a win more so than Florida but either could swing our way.

 

[JDStud6]

We should win TN, Vandy, and App State. 

We have a shot against FL and aTm.

We will lose UGA and Clemson.

If We make a bowl, Champ is safe because that's pretty much what was expected prior to the season based on a tough schedule.

JD

 

[Sporkgod50]

We should win TN, Vandy, and App State. 

We have a shot against FL and aTm.

We will lose UGA and Clemson.

If We make a bowl, Champ is safe because that's pretty much what was expected prior to the season based on a tough schedule.

JD

agreed. He basically just needs to cancel out the opening screw up. I think he also needs to get the team to show up for bowl game. 

 

[STS]

agreed. He basically just needs to cancel out the opening screw up. I think he also needs to get the team to show up for bowl game. 

I would not chalk up Appy as a win.  They beat the same UNC team that beat us...after the last bowl game I will not be attending another until it seems like some sort of a priority to Muschamp. From my view it seems that he only focuses on recruiting and gets outcoached left and right

 

[JimG]

...I can't understand how any man could hold these opposing positions.

Because some people just don't want to believe otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if we found out that some people are defensive due to antagonism with CU and other fans. 

 

[JimG]

...Champ is safe because that's pretty much what was expected prior to the season based on a tough schedule.

JD

I think the UK win was huge. He'll probably finish with at least 4 wins. Unless something else real ugly plays into the picture, he'll get another season (2020).

But I fully expect next season to have a shorter leash. 5-6 wins next season, and the dye of consistent mediocrity is set. 

You either move up or you move out. 

 

[JDStud6]

We played pretty well vs UNC, except Jake was off and couldn't hit the winning TD.  The MO game we were just horrible on offense.  Both of those games are the reason the hot-seat talk is going around.  Those are also the reason we probably won't go bowling, unfortunately.
 

JD

 

[STS]

We played pretty well vs UNC, except Jake was off and couldn't hit the winning TD.  The MO game we were just horrible on offense.  Both of those games are the reason the hot-seat talk is going around.  Those are also the reason we probably won't go bowling, unfortunately.
 

JD

I would contend we didn't go bowling last year either

 

[Sporkgod50]

I would not chalk up Appy as a win.  They beat the same UNC team that beat us...after the last bowl game I will not be attending another until it seems like some sort of a priority to Muschamp. From my view it seems that he only focuses on recruiting and gets outcoached left and right

Oh I don't think any game on our schedule is a certain win. 

 

[Sporkgod50]

I would contend we didn't go bowling last year either

Champ needed the time to recruit or to rest or to never get out worked or something. I forget the current excuse

 

[JimG]

I would contend we didn't go bowling last year either

...but we did get bowled by UVA. 

 

[Pitchcock]

Champ needed the time to recruit or to rest or to never get out worked or something. I forget the current excuse

What’d we have last year at the bowl game? Somewhere in the ballpark of 15-19 guys with injuries? 

Best use of the staff’s time was recruiting. 

 

[JimG]

What’d we have last year at the bowl game? Somewhere in the ballpark of 15-19 guys with injuries? 

Best use of the staff’s time was recruiting. 

How many guys out for the UNC game? Your excuses are full of holes. 

 

[Mr Ed]

Wait so when champ won early at USC it was because he's a great coach that performed miracles with horrible players and when Mac nearly beat the number one team in the country, it's because the previous coach left him with great players? That doesn't seem consistent at all, but wait it's ok because transitions are always different so there's no need to apply consistent evaluation. In related news, 2+2 is now equal to 5.

Here's the other in my mind harder to explain position you've taken. Mac took a mediocre team and nearly beat the number one team in the country. As noted above, you think that man is only winning because of the great position Fedora let him in. (Most coaches get fired because they've built a great team...) You think champ won early despite being left a weak team, because he's a great coach. However, you don't think we have any chance against UGA every with the be week for cwm to prepare his team. Unless we return to the logic doesn't need to consistent argument I can't understand how any man could hold these opposing positions.

Well you tell me Krispy Kreme.  Who inherited the better team in year one? I mean c’mon, Perry Orth for goodness sakes.  (although he’s a great guy)

You misunderstand me Spork.  You think I’m a Muschamp apologist but I’m not.  I think the jury is still out. What I hate is the 4 and done fan mentality because I don’t believe it’s fair or good for most programs.  I think it takes 6 years to truly know what a coach can do and I’ve clearly outlined my reasons why.  I’m not sold on Champ yet, but I do think he’s checked enough boxes outside of strictly wins and losses to earn at least 2 more years.  It’s that simple for me.  

 

[Mr Ed]

True on the injuries - but our Senior QB got outplayed by a true Freshman. Otherwise, we win the game.

UNC has a better team than people realize. The one position where we appeared to have a clear edge - QB - turned out to be Advantage UNC. 

But don't blame Bentley - blame the coaches, question the schemes, question recruiting, whatever. Granted, Boom could have (and probaby should have) pulled the plug and put in a different QB. But pulling your Senior QB in the first game could blow the whole season up.

And even then, if Bentley hits a wide open Shi Smith, we still win.

I was a Bentley fan but I do blame him.  He was awful.  And I do blame the coaches too for not having the best  OLine on the field that night.  It was a bad game.  It happens to every team every year.  But I do take some consolation that UNC has proven themselves since.  Still, we should’ve won. 

 

[Mr Ed]

I have pontificated on how poor QB play can cause poor Offensive performance and even impact the Defense (they get no rest and have to play more possessions) - and therefore have an outsized impact on a team's record.

Take UNC. UNC went from having a talented DT/multi-year starter Senior QB (Marquise Williams) in 2015 - when they went 11-1 in the regular season, with their only loss to us - to having a First Round draft pick (Mitch Trubisky) in 2016 when they went 8-5. Even though Marquise Williams was very good, he had a sub-par game against us, throwing two INTs in the end zone (thank you Skai), so they were really the better team that year.

UNC ran into issues in 2017 when their QB - Chaz Surrat - was so weak that he was re-invented and is now the star of their Defense. The 2018 QB was so underwhelming that he transferred to a smaller program, Arkansas State.

Bottom line, the talent was probably a lot more consistent from 2015 to 2019 than the records show. They have a good Freshmen QB now, and they suddenly have a better team than people were thinking preseason.

We are in the same boat with a talented Freshman QB (rated higher than UNC's Sam Howell).  As long as he stays healthy, we should be competitive in the remaining games - even the Clemson game. Clemson is not as good as last year - the D is not nearly as good, esp. the D Line - and we actually have a better team than UNC, the head to head  results notwithstanding.

Because, keeping with the theme, we had poor QB play against UNC.

Ditto and +1.  The college football landscape is riddled with corpses of good coaches that got canned because they couldn’t find a good QB.  

 

[dreammachine]

True on the injuries - but our Senior QB got outplayed by a true Freshman. Otherwise, we win the game.

UNC has a better team than people realize. The one position where we appeared to have a clear edge - QB - turned out to be Advantage UNC. 

But don't blame Bentley - blame the coaches, question the schemes, question recruiting, whatever. Granted, Boom could have (and probaby should have) pulled the plug and put in a different QB. But pulling your Senior QB in the first game could blow the whole season up.

And even then, if Bentley hits a wide open Shi Smith, we still win.

True statement, but I would also add that the center Hank Manos got beat on every pass play up the middle and there was no where for Bentley to step up in the pocket.  This gets lost in translation when everyone talks about this game.  Also Hank M was not calling the proper line sets per a couple of lineman and this just added to the confusion.  We lost the game by what - 4 points - and then we played about as poorly as you could play a football game and with a break here or there - we still had a chance to win.  I hated that we lost, but NC beat a good Miami team and almost pulled one off on Clem&Son and I still cannot believe that "This Great Coach That Many Are Bragging About Mack Brown - did not tie the game in regulation and give his team a chance in OT.  In the days of "No - OT" - it would have been a great and powerful thing to go for the win, but Clem&Son were the better team and the only chance NC had was to win in OT.  Going for 2 points was like Kirby Smart trying the "fake punt" against Bama?