Evaluating Muschamp tenure at the helm so far

[Pitchcock]

Bentley's performance is also on Muschamp because he is the one that permitted it. Bentley should have been benched on several occasions but Muschamp stuck with him. No player should have carte blanche on any position.

I believe that stats are for losers. I'd take winning games with less than stellar stats vs having stellar stats but losing. The name of the game is getting W's and Championships. BTW, his breaking records while losing speaks volumes about our program.

Who else was he going to play over the previous three years?

Scar was finally healthy last year, but the people I talked to indicated that in spite of his Missouri performance he struggled in practice. 

Other than Scar, who’d been injured prior to last year, we didn’t have anyone else.

My point about Jake closing in on most of our passing records only shows that despite his inconsistencies he statistically was going down as one of our better QB’s ever.

Its fair to call that an indictment of every QB we’ve had here, but that has nothing to do with Muschamp.

Like I said before, I prefer looking ahead instead of looking back. Provided Doty signs, potentially between him and Hilinski we’ll have the most talent we’ve had at one time at QB ever.....that’s considering that Shaw and Dylan weren’t highly rated guys, but were good college QB’s.

 

[zcoop]

Who else was he going to play over the previous three years?

Scar was finally healthy last year, but the people I talked to indicated that in spite of his Missouri performance he struggled in practice. 

Other than Scar, who’d been injured prior to last year, we didn’t have anyone else.

My point about Jake closing in on most of our passing records only shows that despite his inconsistencies he statistically was going down as one of our better QB’s ever.

Its fair to call that an indictment of every QB we’ve had here, but that has nothing to do with Muschamp.

Like I said before, I prefer looking ahead instead of looking back. Provided Doty signs, potentially between him and Hilinski we’ll have the most talent we’ve had at one time at QB ever.....that’s considering that Shaw and Dylan weren’t highly rated guys, but were good college QB’s.

Good coaches have backup QBs in the event that their #1 isn't getting it done. Fla was without Franks and inserted Trask who went down briefly yesterday. They had another QB that came in and did enough to hold the team until Trask returned and probably would have been sufficient had he not returned. We've been a one trick pony at that position since Muschamp has been here. One thing I admired about the Old Ball Coach was that if his QB wasn't getting it done, he wasn't afraid to put the next guy in and had him prepared to play. Muschamp's anal vision has cost us games.

Last year we also had Dak. He or Scar could have won or lost games just as Bentley did but they weren't given a chance. You brought the past in when you cited the record books.

 

[Mr Ed]

If champ had beaten UNC or UVA, I'm not upset with him. Or if he had beaten ranked teams during his tenure, then I wouldn't be upset. But he didn't and he hasn't, if you are content with him foundering that's ok, but my expectations are quite reasonable. Also spurrier hit all of those milestones and more despite needing to cleanup the program. So we know good coaches can win here quickly and that champs record is more fat Brad than it is success

In YEAR 2 Spurrier won 8 games (Muschamp won 9).  In YEAR 3 Spurrier went 6-6 and missed a bowl.  That team lost its last 5 games including a loss to Vandy.  He should’ve been fired by your criteria.  He lives to fight another day so now we’re in YEAR 4 He goes 7-6 with a nice curb stomp by Iowa in the bowl game.  This is Year 4!! 

Win here quickly?  Ummm no.  But let’s not stop there.  Let’s look at Spurrier YEAR 5.  Ok, 7-6 with a 3-5 conference record, lost last 3 games including an ASS KICKING to might CINCINNATI in the bowl game.  Somebody fire this guy!!   How about YEAR 6?  Welp, how about 7-6 and another 3-5 SEC mark.  He lost 4 of his last 5 games and put a big bow on it with another bowl loss to   badass UCONN.   I swear I’m not even making this up.  Should we keep him Spork?  Huh?   No way.  But we did because Spurrier had clout and got the benefit of the doubt.  And the rest is history.  

Youre upset about UVA?  I’ll one up you with UCONN.  You’re mad about UNC?  I’ll double down with 2010 Kentucky.

You are right Sporky, coaches can win big here.  But none have done it quickly.  What you are asking (or demanding) by year 3 as if its reasonable has never been done here before.  Not by anyone.  Not ever.  

 

[Sporkgod50]

In YEAR 2 Spurrier won 8 games (Muschamp won 9).  In YEAR 3 Spurrier went 6-6 and missed a bowl.  That team lost its last 5 games including a loss to Vandy.  He should’ve been fired by your criteria.  He lives to fight another day so now we’re in YEAR 4 He goes 7-6 with a nice curb stomp by Iowa in the bowl game.  This is Year 4!! 

Win here quickly?  Ummm no.  But let’s not stop there.  Let’s look at Spurrier YEAR 5.  Ok, 7-6 with a 3-5 conference record, lost last 3 games including an ASS KICKING to might CINCINNATI in the bowl game.  Somebody fire this guy!!   How about YEAR 6?  Welp, how about 7-6 and another 3-5 SEC mark.  He lost 4 of his last 5 games and put a big bow on it with another bowl loss to   badass UCONN.   I swear I’m not even making this up.  Should we keep him Spork?  Huh?   No way.  But we did because Spurrier had clout and got the benefit of the doubt.  And the rest is history.  

Youre upset about UVA?  I’ll one up you with UCONN.  You’re mad about UNC?  I’ll double down with 2010 Kentucky.

You are right Sporky, coaches can win big here.  But none have done it quickly.  What you are asking (or demanding) by year 3 as if its reasonable has never been done here before.  Not by anyone.  Not ever.  

When did spurrier beat his second ranked team? What about champ? The answer to those questions are why sos got the benefit of the doubt and champ isn't. Lou has some nice early seasons and big wins too. Champs got Michigan and recruiting I guess.

The reason I know your argument is slim is every time you and Ace defend champ you don't talk about the games he's won or the players he's developed. If he wins keep him. Otherwise don't make excuses for the man. 

 

[JimG]

The UNC game? We got beat.

We got outcoached. We were not ready. We had all off-season to "fix". 

 

[gAmkok]

I'm reading the Spurrier vs Muschamp argument and it all seems to make sense but for one observation...

With SOS, even during the lean first several seasons, we all (or most of us anyway) KNEW he was going to get it done. He got the benefit of the doubt because of his reputation, his confidence, and the incremental improvement we were able to see. And we adopted his confidence and took a "just wait, it's coming" approach. Did we think he'd be successful and then retire on the job? Heck no, but that's what happened. But at least he proved we were right, at least for a little while.

Muschamp isn't getting the same benefit because nobody actually knows if he is able to be a great head coach. He hasn't done it before and he doesn't project the cocksure confidence Spurrier did in order to convince people who haven't seen him succeed yet. Spurrier KNEW he was better than the other guy and that he could put his team in a position to compete with anyone. Muschamp doesn't have that same panache, so while we're wondering if he can get it done, sometimes it really seems like he's wondering the same thing.

I *think* he's got things headed in the right direction, but losing to UNC and Mizzou really put a wet blanket on this season. Those are games we should have won - talent wise and coaching wise - and there's really no excuse for losing them and that is concerning, regardless what year it is in Muschamp's tenure.

That being said, I'm not picking sides in a fight. I don't care all that much, really. As I've said plenty of times before, Muschamp will be here as long as Ray Tanner is the AD, regardless of record, so there's no point in getting worked up about any other possibilities. I hope he wins multiple championships here.

 

[Mr Ed]

I'm reading the Spurrier vs Muschamp argument and it all seems to make sense but for one observation...

With SOS, even during the lean first several seasons, we all (or most of us anyway) KNEW he was going to get it done. He got the benefit of the doubt because of his reputation, his confidence, and the incremental improvement we were able to see. And we adopted his confidence and took a "just wait, it's coming" approach. Did we think he'd be successful and then retire on the job? Heck no, but that's what happened. But at least he proved we were right, at least for a little while.

Muschamp isn't getting the same benefit because nobody actually knows if he is able to be a great head coach. He hasn't done it before and he doesn't project the cocksure confidence Spurrier did in order to convince people who haven't seen him succeed yet. Spurrier KNEW he was better than the other guy and that he could put his team in a position to compete with anyone. Muschamp doesn't have that same panache, so while we're wondering if he can get it done, sometimes it really seems like he's wondering the same thing.

I *think* he's got things headed in the right direction, but losing to UNC and Mizzou really put a wet blanket on this season. Those are games we should have won - talent wise and coaching wise - and there's really no excuse for losing them and that is concerning, regardless what year it is in Muschamp's tenure.

That being said, I'm not picking sides in a fight. I don't care all that much, really. As I've said plenty of times before, Muschamp will be here as long as Ray Tanner is the AD, regardless of record, so there's no point in getting worked up about any other possibilities. I hope he wins multiple championships here.

I do agree Spurrier got the benefit of the doubt.  And frankly he never coached a single game that seemed hopeless to win.  Even all the 7-6 years it felt like we could win every game.  

Frankly, this week against GA seems hopeless and I hate to say that but it’s the truth.  And that’s what Spork and you and others are pointing at.   And it has merit.  But Spurrier was a rare bird and there are few coaches like him that can make you believe you could win any game.  Actually there are none I can think of with the swagger he had.  He was one of a kind and there is no other like him right now in college football.

Muschamp is methodical and a little boring, but so is Nick Saban.  We can win like that and I’m ok with him as long as he keeps checking the boxes with recruiting, etc, and building which it seems he is.  But gosh a spectacular win at some point would go a long way to help his cause.  No doubt about it.  

He’s got a few shots left this year to make a statement.  Let’s see if he can do it. 

 

[JimG]

With SOS, even during the lean first several seasons, we all (or most of us anyway) KNEW he was going to get it done.

At the end of his 2nd season, I think the fan base was jacked. We were a FG away from beating UF, who went on to win the NC and UF had noticeably better talent. Fans were not used to seeing that. 

The '07 mid-season meltdown was a shock to all of us and it was apparent that HBC had some asst coaching issues that he eventually rectified. 

 

[ShepCock]

We are not beating Florida

I think we will actually.

 

[Mr Ed]

I think we will actually.

I like our chances.  I think Mizzou will end up being the best defense we face this year. Florida, A&M and Georgia are in the next tier.  If Hilinski and our running game has success against Georgia then I really like our chances against Florida and A&M.  I just hope Saturday isn’t a repeat of Mizzou.  That won’t bode well for the rest of the season. 

 

[TKE226]

Well I think that would be Muschamp's signature win. And probably guarantees him a few more years. 

I still am hesitant of him as a head coach. The 58 yard field goal attempt was a headscratcher for a decision. If you are going to go for it, then we should have kept the offense on the field. Also, not to take away from the win, but we didn't score in the second half. Which is a concern to me. Can Joyner get it done? 

 

[Lalli25]

Well I think that would be Muschamp's signature win. And probably guarantees him a few more years. 

I still am hesitant of him as a head coach. The 58 yard field goal attempt was a headscratcher for a decision. If you are going to go for it, then we should have kept the offense on the field. Also, not to take away from the win, but we didn't score in the second half. Which is a concern to me. Can Joyner get it done? 

Agree about going for it vs FG attempt but don’t think you can make too much out of the O.  I think a week to prepare and Joyner full time at QB we will be better.  Also, not sure we will see this good a D the rest of the year.

 

[zcoop]

Well I think that would be Muschamp's signature win. And probably guarantees him a few more years. 

I still am hesitant of him as a head coach. The 58 yard field goal attempt was a headscratcher for a decision. If you are going to go for it, then we should have kept the offense on the field. Also, not to take away from the win, but we didn't score in the second half. Which is a concern to me. Can Joyner get it done? 

You're right, the FG attempt was a head scratch. As far as Joyner, the kid has not really played much QB at USC. Remember he was working with the WRs after being demoted from 2nd string to 3rd string. Not sure how much work he has gotten to work with the offense at QB but we'll see what they come up with. They just wanted him to manage the game and played it real safe. UGA's Defense was playing pretty good too.

 

[JimG]

And probably guarantees him a few more years. 

Depends on the rest of the season...but back-back SEC wins is a good sign things are heading in the right direction. 

 

[Cockyandproud]

I have been a big supporter of Coach Muschamp, and after the beginning of this season, I, like many others, began to waiver in my support, and start to wonder if hiring him was a mistake.  I know that some out there, particularly, Spork, and Ironfan, don't care for Coach Muschamp, and don't think he is the right man for the job.  Based on the last two games, and the obvious adjustments, and major improvements on the defense, what is everyone's opinion now?  I am inclined to believe that I have jumped the gun, and Coach is showing that he is making improvements, but it is taking a little more time than originally expected.  Next week will be a big test in where the team is, but a lot of that will hinge on Hilinski's health.  Based on the last two game performances, I believe we may be on the right track, after all.

 

[FeatheredCock]

Hopefully Sunday night Tel-conference Champ will be a straight shooter and lay it out honesty and let us know or hopefully a ideal whats up with Ryan knee.  Hopefully just a tweak. We will need him Saturday. 

 

[Longhaul]

Agree about going for it vs FG attempt but don’t think you can make too much out of the O.  I think a week to prepare and Joyner full time at QB we will be better.  Also, not sure we will see this good a D the rest of the year.

If you have watched Florida this season, their defense is pretty nasty.  They have speed everywhere and are very disruptive.  

 

[AikenGameFan]

I have been and am okay with Champ just because he had the best 3 yr record. I have been and am worried about the coordinators.

T-Rob has proved twice now that he can get it done and boy did they look sharp against one of the nations best, ex #3. However, B-Mac still leaves me wondering what the heck he is doing. Some of his play calls just don't make sense considering how the players are playing. I mean Rico is eating up yards and then you throw it on 3rd and 2. Why?

After today, Champ should be good for a couple more. I just hope he considers modifying his staff.

 

[Cockyandproud]

I have been postulating that too much of a team's and a coach's success depends on the QB play. Boom lost a lot of support due to Bentley's 2 1/2 game slump, starting with the second half of the Akron game. Then the Mizzou game, when you could tell that something was wrong with Hilinski, had more folks jumping off the bandwagon.

Not bad coaching, not poor recruiting, just bad QB play. Hilinski accounted for 4 passes against Mizzou - 2 for us, 2 for Mizzou.  And 43.33% passing.

We almost lost today because Hilinski got hurt and Joyner was not ready to step up, due to injury and/or lack of preparation. But we won - basically - because Fromm had a bad game, missing passes and quadrupling his interceptions from the start of the season.

I think that we are making strides as a team, but QB play remains an issue with Hilinski being iffy for UF. Ironically, I thought that we would beat UF because their QB was not that good - but, like us, their starter went down and their back-up is a step up. And now our back-up might be on the fritz.

This is not meant to "call you out" Ace, or be derogatory toward you in any way, but I get annoyed when people, mainly fans of the team who lost, say things like this.  Fromm did not have a bad day because he forgot how to play football, or couldn't remember what the plays were, he had a bad day because our defense played very well.  I have read repeatedly today from Georgia fans how they lost the game because of this, that, or the other.  NO!  You lost the game because the Gamecocks outplayed you, and kicked your tails!  It happens, just admit it.  We won today because of our defense.  They won it.  They stopped the Georgia offense when they needed to, and scored some points. Period.  End of story.

 

[Longhaul]

Agree about going for it vs FG attempt but don’t think you can make too much out of the O.  I think a week to prepare and Joyner full time at QB we will be better.  Also, not sure we will see this good a D the rest of the year.

If you have watched Florida this season, their defense is pretty nasty.  They have speed everywhere and are very disruptive.