Evaluating Muschamp tenure at the helm so far

[kingofnerf]

The rub on our program for a long time was we couldn't complete with UF, UT, and UGA for the nearby quality recruits. Now you can add Clemson to that list as well.

Spurrier was able to break that trend and that's where the 33-6 years came from.  My perception is vocational aptitude and being coach-able is the dividing line that separates the 4 and 5 * recruits from the status quo.  They are more likely to become leaders on a team.

In the absence of players on who lead on the field, which is what you get with 3* recruits, the coaches have to lean on the players more until enough players figure it out and start to lead the team themselves.

But our coaches tend to not get in their faces in games and the losses pile-up until the season is essentially over at a point.  I have seen that with Frank's staff as well up to this point, except for the FF run a few years ago.  Frank chilled out and let the team lose last year instead of getting in their faces to get the win.

Dabo looked stupid chewing out that punter, but he was letting the whole team (players and coaches) know what the standard in the program was at the same time.  We don't do that and it's part of why we lose so much.

The losses have been tough to swallow, but I would still like to see Will figure things out before the season is over and get some good wins, including Clemson, this season.

JMO.

 

[Sporkgod50]

I have said it before, and if anyone remembers what I have written in the past, I have been a Muschamp supporter.  I believed, based on what I had read that he got a raw deal in Florida.  On paper he seems to have everything to be successful. We are almost through the fourth year of his tenure.  Looking for improvement before year 4 is absurd, when the program was in the mess it was in.  I was fully expecting that this year was the year we would see the fruits of his labor.  I did not expect a championship this year, but I did expect to see where we had turned the corner, and next year should have been our bursting on to the national scene as contenders.  Unless something really drastic happens, we are definitely not going to be bursting on to the scene next year.  I don't believe Muschamp will be let go after this year, because of the buyout, and also, the Georgia win will buy him time.  I would like to know what you think should be done.  I do not have inside information about the football program, so all I know is what I read from others.  According to others, Muschamp has built the infrastructure of the program, and organized and modernized recruiting, and other parts of the program.  Programs that change coaches every few years continue to flounder, so how long do you believe he should get to be successful?  Who, or what type of coach should we search for, and do you think that we have a legitimate shot at a program-changing coach, once Muschamp is gone?  We are what we are, so how would you propose we go from where we are now to where we want to be.  

By the way, this are legitimate questions, not a post to bait you into an argument.  I truly want to know what those who did not want Muschamp from the beginning, think should be done, because this doesn't seem to be working, at least not at this point.

I think that you and I have pretty similar positions. I don't think realistically we can afford to get rid of him. I also think you can't really evaluate a coach until year four. My main position is that he deserves to be on the hot seat this off-season. Next year is win or leave. Anything else and we'll be in a worse hole than before he got here. For another coach, I just don't want our third choice. The truth is no one really wanted champ to begin with. He was just what Ray could get us. I wanted him to redeem himself. Everyone did. Well hopefully everyone did. It's just not happening so far. He still struggles to coach QBs. He's not great at in game adjustments. It's Florida redux without the elite defense. I'd prefer if we're going to take a risk on it next hire to see us give someone new their first chance. Obviously an established coach maybe miles has been the recipe for success here. Anyway that's my two cents. The undebatable thing is that cwm is responsible for the team more than any player or players because the problems have transcended seasons and players.

All that said, I'm sure you don't mean it as a bait post. I'm sure others will take advantage though.

 

[Cockyandproud]

I think that you and I have pretty similar positions. I don't think realistically we can afford to get rid of him. I also think you can't really evaluate a coach until year four. My main position is that he deserves to be on the hot seat this off-season. Next year is win or leave. Anything else and we'll be in a worse hole than before he got here. For another coach, I just don't want our third choice. The truth is no one really wanted champ to begin with. He was just what Ray could get us. I wanted him to redeem himself. Everyone did. Well hopefully everyone did. It's just not happening so far. He still struggles to coach QBs. He's not great at in game adjustments. It's Florida redux without the elite defense. I'd prefer if we're going to take a risk on it next hire to see us give someone new their first chance. Obviously an established coach maybe miles has been the recipe for success here. Anyway that's my two cents. The undebatable thing is that cwm is responsible for the team more than any player or players because the problems have transcended seasons and players.

All that said, I'm sure you don't mean it as a bait post. I'm sure others will take advantage though.

Thanks for explaining your position.  I understand where you are coming from now.  Some of the guys who don't like Muschamp just come across as jerks.  Now that I understand your position, I appreciate it more.  

 

[Mr Ed]

still wanting to blame the 17-22 year olds and not the coaches...

Still expecting coaches to magically have a loaded roster in year 4.  

 

[gAmkok]

Thanks for explaining your position.  I understand where you are coming from now.  Some of the guys who don't like Muschamp just come across as jerks.  Now that I understand your position, I appreciate it more.  

Off topic, but I just want to say that I appreciate the civility and mutual respect of this entire conversation between Cockyandproud and Sporkgod50. Started out on opposite sides of an argument, explained their positions, and figured out they're a lot closer than they thought. Would be an interesting method to employ toward other, more national conversations. Thanks guys.

 

[Mr Ed]

Thanks for explaining your position.  I understand where you are coming from now.  Some of the guys who don't like Muschamp just come across as jerks.  Now that I understand your position, I appreciate it more.  

Don’t let him fool you. 

These guys would run this program into oblivion if you let them.  There is no grey area, it’s all black or white to them.  The reality is that there is no coach in the world that can meet their “standards”.  Get rid of muschamp and they will be running off the next coach at the first sign of trouble, and then the next one, and then the next one.  By their standards Spurrier wouldn’t have made it to year four.  

If they had their way... flash forward 10 years and we’re firing our 3rd coach in as many years and going 3-9.  Basically we’d be Arkansas.  No, these guys can’t be left unchallenged.  They can’t be allowed to become the voice of Gamecock nation and to create their own narrative and push their own agenda.  Cooler heads must prevail and they should be challenged at every turn and every corner.

 

[Lalli25]

I just think we need an overhaul on O.  Our D will be what it is.  However, we need a big time OC to come in and give us an identity but also some life.  Likely that So Cal will fire their HC, so wouldn’t mind us bringing in gram Harold to take a great passing QB and build an air raid around him.  I’m just over the pathetic and inconsistent O we have had for four years.  

 

[Sporkgod50]

Off topic, but I just want to say that I appreciate the civility and mutual respect of this entire conversation between Cockyandproud and Sporkgod50. Started out on opposite sides of an argument, explained their positions, and figured out they're a lot closer than they thought. Would be an interesting method to employ toward other, more national conversations. Thanks guys.

Completely agree with you. Buy then you'll pretty much always have those folks like Mr. Ed that reply like below and above. The more simple minded the person the more they are inclined to see things as black and white, I suppose.

 

[Sporkgod50]

Don’t let him fool you. 

These guys would run this program into oblivion if you let them.  There is no grey area, it’s all black or white to them.  The reality is that there is no coach in the world that can meet their “standards”.  Get rid of muschamp and they will be running off the next coach at the first sign of trouble, and then the next one, and then the next one.  By their standards Spurrier wouldn’t have made it to year four.  

If they had their way... flash forward 10 years and we’re firing our 3rd coach in as many years and going 3-9.  Basically we’d be Arkansas.  No, these guys can’t be left unchallenged.  They can’t be allowed to become the voice of Gamecock nation and to create their own narrative and push their own agenda.  Cooler heads must prevail and they should be challenged at every turn and every corner.

This is your concept of having a cooler head and not seeing in Black and White? Put the keyboard down, go home, you're drunk.

 

[Sporkgod50]

I just think we need an overhaul on O.  Our D will be what it is.  However, we need a big time OC to come in and give us an identity but also some life.  Likely that So Cal will fire their HC, so wouldn’t mind us bringing in gram Harold to take a great passing QB and build an air raid around him.  I’m just over the pathetic and inconsistent O we have had for four years.  

Could be right but seems like champ tried that same approach in Florida always pretty much coached a bad offensive team. If be willing to see him try everything. Would love for him to succeed because then so does my team

 

[Spur's Addiction]

I just don’t get this team. We seem to be able to hang with most teams for 2-3 quarters. And for some reason thin has just fall apart and the wheels come off late in the game. Games that we were winning at halftime ( or down by just a few) seem like a blowout in the end.

UGA being the exception.

 

[TKE226]

I just don’t get this team. We seem to be able to hang with most teams for 2-3 quarters. And for some reason thin has just fall apart and the wheels come off late in the game. Games that we were winning at halftime ( or down by just a few) seem like a blowout in the end.

UGA being the exception.

Agree with you that is what is happening. As for the why...well my take is when you have an inept offense that cant move the ball and requires the D to be on the field more, the team gets worn out. Sustaining drives on offense is the best way to keep the defense fresh. 

 

[Cockyandproud]

Off topic, but I just want to say that I appreciate the civility and mutual respect of this entire conversation between Cockyandproud and Sporkgod50. Started out on opposite sides of an argument, explained their positions, and figured out they're a lot closer than they thought. Would be an interesting method to employ toward other, more national conversations. Thanks guys.

Thanks.  I think part of the problem is today’s culture that has permeated everything.  For some reason, people have bought into the theory that if you don’t agree with me, then we hate each other, and it escalates from there.  If people would calm down, and find common ground with each other, and go from there, things would be a lot better.  I don’t agree with Spork on a lot of things, but he’s a Gamecock, seems to be a decent guy, and I’m glad he’s here. 

 

[Cockypantherfan]

I saw a stat listing what our defense has ranked in the SEC each year under TRob and it is not good. I definitely don't think he is a good coordinator and needs to be removed from those duties. Champ has PROVEN that he is a good defensive coordinator so he should take over playcalling for sure.

Offensively I also do not think BMac is the answer and we need a proven OC to come on board and take the lead. The most frustrating thing for me is all of the 3 and outs which absolutely wears down the defense. I actually think we have pretty good players but to ask them to defend 80-100 snaps each week is asinine.

We continually lose the TOP battle and not sustaining drives is a huge morale killer. I don't get why we don't utilize more slants or crossing routes or drag routes. There is no flow to the calls and we show the same formations over and over again which make defending us very predictable. I mean, I've never played a down of organized football in my life (a lot of Madden, though haha) and I can call out a lot of the plays we are going with.

 

[Cockypantherfan]

We have to scrap and claw and fight these last four games of the year so we don't lose a lot of the recruits we have. Getting talent is just as important as winning but we need to win to get/retain talent.

 

[Cockypantherfan]

I just don’t get this team. We seem to be able to hang with most teams for 2-3 quarters. And for some reason thin has just fall apart and the wheels come off late in the game. Games that we were winning at halftime ( or down by just a few) seem like a blowout in the end.

UGA being the exception.

It's interesting the comment that Feaster made something to the tune of "guys need to learn how to compete better and want it... they aren't desperate enough to make plays and win." 

That makes total sense, especially since Feaster came from a winning program and understands the culture that is needed to win big time.

 

[JDStud6]

Still expecting coaches to magically have a loaded roster in year 4.  

Does MO have a loaded roster?  Does TN have a loaded roster?

JD

 

[JDStud6]

Evaluating CWM right now is pretty easy.  He's failing, plain and simple.  His repeated "it's my fault" comments do nothing but anger me that he's being way overpaid for under producing.  His only savior is his horrific contract and Ray Tanner.

We have looked absolutely horrible in too many games lately.  UVA, MO, TN....we never looked good in any of those games.  Just 4 quarters of trash on offense for all 4.  That's with different QBs and RBs....but with the same coaching staff.

JD

 

[gAmkok]

It's interesting the comment that Feaster made something to the tune of "guys need to learn how to compete better and want it... they aren't desperate enough to make plays and win." 

That makes total sense, especially since Feaster came from a winning program and understands the culture that is needed to win big time.

It's a difference between passively playing your position vs deciding you're in charge of what happens on the field. That difference is 100% coaching. Feaster got that message at Clemson - as do all their players. Our guys haven't had that instilled. It's a cultural difference between ours and successful programs. 

But me saying that doesn't change a thing.

 

[crowcutta]

our offense has been bad, but i dont believe the offensive coordinator who can turn this sinking ship around exists.  that is to say our problems run a lot deeper than the offensive playcalling and pick your proven oc and im not sure our record would be much different.