Evaluating Muschamp tenure at the helm so far

[dreammachine]

There is no issue with keeping Muschamp as coach for at least another year as long as things do not get so bad that recruiting suffers. As long as Boom recruits well - and by all accounts, he has done that - we will have a smilar situation to Florida where McElwain was able to win SEC East titles immediately with Boom's players. And McElwain is not that good of a coach, as he quickly showed when he had to rely more on his recruits.

Keeping Boom would be a positive for a lot of reasons - lowered buy-out, the players seem to like the staff ands are still playing hard, continuity with the current players and prospects, it would show future coaches that they will be given a full shot, and Muschamp has the potential to still turn things around.

The offensive issues at Mizzou seemed to be mostly QB accuracy issues. Either there really were some elbow problems or Hilinski was just rattled due to playing his first road game. And the Offensive Line had issues with the Mizzou pass rush/blitzes, which did not help.

In hindsight, Joyner actually would have done better - at least he has the ability to keep plays alive. So an actual injury to Hilinski would not be the end of the world (or the season) and might bail out the O Line to an extent. And it would give Joyner a chance to show what he can do prior to Doty showing up - I would like to see Joyner get a chance at QB since he based his commitment on getting a shot.

Bottom line, there is no reason to give up on the season, Muschamp, or the Offensive staff. But we do need to play better and win some games - soon. If we start losing commits to the negativity, then Tanner may not have any other options.

You make some very good points Ace.  I think Coach Muschamp is recruiting well and I also wish that the team was playing better and winning more games.  I also think that Ryan Hillinski took a beating against Alabama and it was more than just his elbow.  I saw a QB who played for a good 4-A - SC Football Team a couple of years ago after his team went up against a traditional powerhouse 4A Football Team that is always in the hunt for a long run in the state football playoffs.  This young kid after getting hit on just about every other play (I mean hard hitting and taken to the ground) wanted to go out and shoot some basketball with his friends outside in his yard the next evening and from his shoulders to his hips on both sides - he was black, blue, and yellow.  This kid could hardly get his arms up to properly shoot a basketball.  This happens to you when you get hit so hard that eventually your body can't absorb this type of punishment and needs a whole lot of healing time.  I think that his was Ryan Hillinski problem and I am not saying that he did not have elbow problems too as he was hit on about every part of his body during Bama Game - but it takes a huge toll on you and reduces your efficiency to perform greatly.  I think Ryan H is -  "raw-bone tough" and did all he could do in the game Saturday, but I also think he was in a lot of pain.   A change at QB with either Dak or Jay Ulrich may not have hurt, but our coaches must have thought we had a better chance to win with a hurt Ryan than putting either one of the others in for a long time.  The O-Line could have played better also, but Mizzou just seem to have our number this year.

 

[Sporkgod50]

You are sound full of it that it is comical!!!  You started calling for a "fire sale" to get rid of Coach Muschamp NOW!!!  All I and everyone else want to know is "what is your magical formula  that you have after firing each football coach after 4 years"?  I gave you mine opinion and what needed to be done.  Give him (Coach Muschamp) two more years and if our program is not where USC and our AD thinks it should be - then do what has to be done.  Plain and simple.

Your solution after "bitching and moaning" (fan's right - for a while anyway) is to JUST FIRE COACH MUSCHAMP after4 years!!!  Which really means you just want to holler and moan - which is your right as a fan - but for how long without some type of logical explanation which you can't explain because you just want to fire Coach Muschamp!!!

Please stop pretending like legitimate complaints are bitching and please stop acting like it takes six years to rebuild a program/evaluate a coach. Please start using spell check/reading your posts before saving it and please avoid the continued misuse of cliche phrases. One final request, please stop acting like you'll respect the critical evaluation of the coaching staff if offered alternative coaches. That was done by another poster over the weekend AND still here we are.

 

[Longhaul]

I'd love to have the HBC back right now.  I'm serious. Look at UNC: Mack Brown. 

As much as some may despise Spurrier, people would show up to watch. He'd win us some games we weren't supposed to win. 

He was heads above the rest of the coaches in the short lived AAF earlier this year. He clearly still had "it". 

It is clear you don't like Muschamp and I can understand that, but you are really grasping now.  Spurrier can coach, but he did not want to continue to put in all the other work to make a college program work.  We had a 5* kid on campus and Spurrier did not even know who the kid was, that is how out of touch and disinterested he became.  He gave us great years and lifted this program to new levels and I for one appreciate what he did, but really man if you are going to live in the glory years, better get started growing that mullet back.  I am curious toward the end were your post in support of Spurrier? 

 

[JimG]

It is clear you don't like Muschamp 

It is not clear. I like Will. He's a good guy. He was a good guy at UF. 

There's likely plenty of UNC fans that groaned when they re-hired Mack Brown. And they beat us with a lesser talented team. 

 

[Longhaul]

It is not clear. I like Will. He's a good guy. He was a good guy at UF. 

There's likely plenty of UNC fans that groaned when they re-hired Mack Brown. And they beat us with a lesser talented team. 

Ok I guess reading your post I felt like you may not have liked him.  I get it with Mack, but also think Mack had the desire to get back in and do everything that requires success on the college level and we are not sure he will be successful.  Spurrier's way of building a program worked back in the day, but the game has changed.  Do I think he could come back and have success, absolutely, but he would need to change his approach and be willing to get into the recruiting process and all of the other aspects and I just don't think he wants to do that.  I will take it that your post in the last years of Spurrier's tenure were not positive? 

 

[ShepCock]

Muschamp might buy some time by firing both of them if things continue south. 

I think  you and I see eye to eye on a lot of what's going on with Gamecock football right now.  I agree with you on firing both coordinators.

I also agree that we're staring 4-8 right in the face. And I also loved this quote:

Until he beats teams of equal talent and stops losing to teams like UNC and UVA, he's headed for removal. He could have Bama's players and still find a way to lose. 

If anything saves him, it's Ryan Hilinski not some magical recruiting. His defenses are not doing him any favors. 

 

[JimG]

Ok I guess reading your post I felt like you may not have liked him.  I get it with Mack, but also think Mack had the desire to get back in and do everything that requires success on the college level and we are not sure he will be successful.  Spurrier's way of building a program worked back in the day, but the game has changed.  Do I think he could come back and have success, absolutely, but he would need to change his approach and be willing to get into the recruiting process and all of the other aspects and I just don't think he wants to do that.  I will take it that your post in the last years of Spurrier's tenure were not positive? 

HBC has admitted repeatedly what he did "wrong". No one knows his mistakes more than him. If he were to ever come back and coach CFB, he'd have to do what other old coaches have done: hire staff to do the leg work. Like guys like Saban & Mack Brown. 

I have no idea if he could still build a program, but he still knows how to run an offense. 

We both know this is speculating....but I would be willing to bet $$ that Steve could get us some nice wins with our current roster. 

 

[JohnnyB21]

Personally, I like what Ed O did. He went out and found a vet coach to serve in strictly an advisory standpoint.  Point out things no one thinks of, make suggestions from a veteran perspective, etc.  Hire Spurrier in that regard, no recruiting. Just mentor B-Mac. No coach alive could call an offensive gameplan like spurrier.

 

[carolina_corpsman]

Definitely there's back channels.

Nobody is doubting their existence, just RT's ability to use them.

 

[ShepCock]

Here are my thoughts after the Missouri blowout loss.

I am done watching this team this year.  I will watch highlights, but my heart just cannot take it when I don't know what to expect from week to week.

After the Alabama loss I was fine.  I said we would lose, I said we would score in the 20s and I said we would cover the spread. Three for three.

I also said at the beginning of the year that our entire season hinges on this Missouri game.  You don't learn much from opening games, we learned very little from the win over an inferior team, or the loss to a superior team.

But Missouri is an historical equal.  Don't believe me? The 5-5 record (now) against them proves that these Tigers are actually more of a rival than those ones in the Upstate are at this point.

I could live with a loss.  A 24-20 or 27-24 or even a 30-23 type of a loss.  BUT.....we lost by 20.  We lost doing stupid things.  We lost by not imposing our will in the run game and abandoning it far too quickly (when exactly will the entire offensive line be called out for their crappy, substandard performance?). Winning football games is all about blocking and tackling.  We are doing NEITHER right now.

We got blown out by an equal.  Kentucky is another historical equal.  I expect no  better result this week.  Do not be fooled by Stoops' sunshine pumping "best 1-3 in the country" bullcrap.  Behind the scenes, they're holding up 6 fingers.  And why shouldn't they? This coaching staff has not learned one damn thing from their losses.

Think about this....if he hadn't gotten hurt, Bentley would still be the starter right now.  STILL!  And all our screaming for Hillinski wouldn't have made a bit of difference.  If I got free tickets to go to a USC home football game right now, I would have to think long and hard about attending.  I love the atmosphere of our stadium, tailgating, etc. but I see nothing on the field right now except blown assignments, mystifying play calls and underachievement.

Going into the bye at 1-4 is a tremendous disappointment when I thought we could be 4-1.  Yes, I bought what the coaching staff and media were selling me, and I feel like a fool because I'm quite certain I was being lied to.  So count me in as a fan who will follow this team from afar.  Not only do I not like our record, I don't really even like our style of play.

But hey....basketball season is only 44 days away!  And I know for a fact that Frank Martin and staff will not disappoint as he always gets the most out the talent that he has!

 

[Sporkgod50]

Nobody is doubting their existence, just RT's ability to use them.

Ha, gotcha. My guess is that he's less of a good salesman for people at that level. Remember all of the hoops that were jumped through to get spurrier and holtz? I remember something about that golf course in Augusta. 

 

[Sporkgod50]

Personally, I like what Ed O did. He went out and found a vet coach to serve in strictly an advisory standpoint.  Point out things no one thinks of, make suggestions from a veteran perspective, etc.  Hire Spurrier in that regard, no recruiting. Just mentor B-Mac. No coach alive could call an offensive gameplan like spurrier.

Did spurrier already have that job and get run off by idiot fans, leading him to take the same job at florida?

 

[JimG]

Did spurrier already have that job and get run off by idiot fans, leading him to take the same job at florida?

...and allegedly meddled with things and pissed people off. Who knows....those that hated Spurrier can spin it to fit their agendas along with blaming him for the current dumpster blaze. 

His AAF team had a great offense earlier this year. I would take him for 3-4 more seasons. I also wouldn't mind have EJ back in the booth. We had our moments. 

 

[Sporkgod50]

...and allegedly meddled with things and pissed people off. Who knows....those that hated Spurrier can spin it to fit their agendas along with blaming him for the current dumpster blaze. 

His AAF team had a great offense earlier this year. I would take him for 3-4 more seasons. I also wouldn't mind have EJ back in the booth. We had our moments. 

I'm not sure the line between advising and meddling other than whether you like someone or not. I think champs approach of fire and hard work resonates with people more than spurrier s approach where he worked less but just outsmarted his opponents. 

 

[JimG]

Boom is a good recruiter..

...until the results on the field prove it, that may just be urban legend. 

Stars matter....winning matters much more. 

 

[JDStud6]

Is Muschamp a bad recruiter or bad coach?  I think he's a pretty good recruiter, so I'd say a bad coach.  Perhaps he knows the Xs and Os, but he doesn't put it together properly.

JD

 

[JDStud6]

McElwain won two SEC East titles with Boom's players and those same players are all over the rosters of NFL teams. And a lot - A LOT - of the players from Boom's most recent class are playing, and playing well, as Freshmen. Which is what you would expect from Boom's 4th class and 3rd full class - now that he has gotten to know the HS coaches and is able to develop a relationship with recruits earlier in their HS careers.

I do not think there is urban legend involved. Just a failure to get the team elevated to the next performance level, whether due to development, coaching schemes, bad decisions, motivation, whatever.

This supports my theory that he's a pretty good recruiter but not a great coach.  He couldn't win with his own players, but then McElwain came in and did.  Muschamp needs to be a DC and head recruiter but we need a different coach.

JD

 

[JimG]

McElwain won two SEC East titles with Boom's players ...

Boom's players or UF's players? 

Regardless, at some point no matter how well you try and recruit, good talent is not going to come play for Top 5 hot seat coach. 

You have to recruit to win, you have to win to recruit. 

 

[Sporkgod50]

There is an expression, something to the effect that "He can beat your players with his players, or he can take your players and beat his players". Maybe a little cruder, but the gist is the same.

Spurrier was like that, while Boom appears to be the guy that is on the other side. Which is a shame, because Boom is a good recruiter, runs a clean program, and seems to have a good football mind. He just does not seem to have the "it" factor to make the team play at a better - or even equal - level to their talent. 

Spurrier is too old, same with Mack Brown at UNC. Brown actually inherited a under-achieving, talented team that had lost a lot of close games, so there is no amazing turnaround. And he has lost the last two, including one to App State. And even if he succeeds, he will be burned out in a couple of years - which is why he left Texas. If we make a change, we need to go young and preferably an Offensive minded guy.

There is a saying about letting a team beat you twice. I think the team was up for Alabama but got mentally and physcically beat up. Hilinski seemed to be banged up and hearing footsteps against Mizzou. Of course, a lot of time the footsteps were real - Mizzou put on a lot of pressure. Just sayin, a lot of failure was on Hilinski's play - his efforts resulted in a 14-14 tie (questionble fumble into the endzone and the pick six). so Mizzou did not need a lot of Offense, and they got plenty. 

And if the QB is not connecting on short, simple passes at a high percentage, nothing else will work. No pass threat = no running room. The pass can set up the run as easy as the other way around.

If Hilinski is not 100% against UK, there needs to be a quick hook. Boom has to beat UK or the buzzards will be circling.

You know there's a problem when the resident optimist is gloomy. Totally agree with your evaluation of the two coaches. Also I'd rather the next hire to be an up and comer than a relatively young retred. Not particularly concerned with whether they're offensively minded it more of a defensive coach

 

[Sporkgod50]

This supports my theory that he's a pretty good recruiter but not a great coach.  He couldn't win with his own players, but then McElwain came in and did.  Muschamp needs to be a DC and head recruiter but we need a different coach.

JD

TBH he hasn't coached a good defense in a while.