Sporkgod50
GCF Top Poster
I appreciate the civility. It's good to remember that an incredibly small number of people in the history of mankind are trying to do evil.
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Evaluating Muschamp tenure at the helm so far
- Thread starter FeatheredCock
- Start date
Sporkgod50
GCF Top Poster
Sporkgod50
GCF Top Poster
I really don’t think BMAC knows how to make adjustments. Their offense is so predictable even I can read it. When I watch offenses like Ohio State, Alabama, LSU it’s obvious how far our offense is behind them. Champ should have looked for a proven OC, not someone who has never been a coordinator.
Sporkgod50
GCF Top Poster
I don't think I'm qualified to identify the solution to the problem. But having eyes lets you know we are playing very inconsistent football.
Sporkgod50
GCF Top Poster
Just commenting on the part where you mentioned me, because it sounds like we agree. I think if champ fails and we hold on too long, recruiting will eventually fall apart. At that point it'll be hard to get a SOS type coach. If he fails (hope he doesn't) and cut our losses at the right time and make the right hire, it could be a quick rebound.
When Spurrier left not only had our wins fallen off, so had our recruiting. It was like Spurrier quit fighting for good players. Muschamp found a way to get some wins and has started getting some talent here again. Like right now, look at all the really good 4 stars he has committed with possibly 3 or 4 more coming. Champ is also not afraid to let a Freshman start if he is the best for that position. He has proven that. But he really needs a new OC.
Kurt Roper did alright. Had a 9 win season. But we really need a big name experienced OC. B-Mac looked big against Mich. in that game, but that was still Kurt's playbook and players Kurt had seasoned. We all hoped B-Mac was going to be the man; sadly he has failed.
With the talent Champ has here, a good OC could have a field day. I still feel that Champ is just defensive minded and needs someone else to carry his Offense.
If he don't make changes this coming off season, and our play does not change, then yes, it is time to can him next year.
Kurt Roper did alright. Had a 9 win season. But we really need a big name experienced OC. B-Mac looked big against Mich. in that game, but that was still Kurt's playbook and players Kurt had seasoned. We all hoped B-Mac was going to be the man; sadly he has failed.
With the talent Champ has here, a good OC could have a field day. I still feel that Champ is just defensive minded and needs someone else to carry his Offense.
If he don't make changes this coming off season, and our play does not change, then yes, it is time to can him next year.
Sporkgod50
GCF Top Poster
With the changing times with now the portal and the players getting paid will make the transaction much harder and more difficult over all to get back fast. Also add in that the Gamecocks are locked in from all sides now with top 5 schools including the one in the upstate. Going to be hard to cut the mustard in recruiting. Really no easy path here. If changed need better find the right coach and ride it out. Not saying keep Boom or fire him, just saying either way this time you have to have all the right pieces in place including the right AD to make the tough discussions with a hire that will propel long fix. Not a old coach with a few years left in him. Just my 2 cents and following the program for 60 years with all the same results nothing long term retained only short periods.
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Couldn’t disagree more about the quick rebound. Read this article from Ben Briener which pretty much explains every single reason why you and others are completely wrong.
Analysis: On coaching changes, Will Muschamp’s future and what a reset usually means
https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-football/article236747483.html
Food for thought.
First thing, what would be a good short-term outcome if a new guy comes in? The 2020 schedule is again brutal, with a road game at LSU replacing Alabama on this year’s slate. There are three easier non-conference games, but expecting a bounce-back to much better than six or seven wins would be a bit much. Lets go a little further now, In 2021, Gamecocks gets Auburn, along with the usual top-end cast of four teams: Clemson, Georgia, Florida and Texas A&M. Even if the Gamecocks takes that big step forward in a coach’s second year and assuming Tennessee is still struggling — it’ll be a fight to get to eight or nine wins.
Here’s the thing of it: In many cases, a coach hanging on at the end means a decay of sorts. Lack of long-term faith erodes recruiting. Theoretical momentum stalls. But with a Muschamp staff, that hasn’t proven to be the case here with him and this staff. He’s got the Gamecock roster in better shape. Things seem to be going well on the classroom and character side of things. He left a talented base at Florida, one that won a pair of SEC East titles in a weak division. The Gamecock roster is different from what he inherited, one with almost nothing proven at the skill positions, a mess on the offensive line and a defense in bad need of development.
And one more year probably won’t change that. He’d bring in running back Marshawn Lloyd and quarterback Luke Doty in the next recruiting class, and he’d create a more solid base for whatever the future brings. Plus, it doesn’t hurt that his players strongly went to bat for him and families of players and recruits are behind him as well.
Note of importance that should not get lost here is that year 4 historically hasn’t been kind to Gamecock coaches:
▪ Steve Spurrier had one of the best, a 7-6 campaign with a Week 2 loss to Vanderbilt and a three-game losing streak to close the season.
▪ Lou Holtz went 5-7.
▪ Joe Morrison went 3-6-2 before rebounding for two 8-4 years.
▪ Jim Carlen went 5-5-1, making bowls the next two years.
▪ Paul Dietzel did win the ACC his Year 4, but he turned around for a losing season the next year.
Two things can happen here, one is things turn sour in a big way, and the need for a change becomes obvious or thing two the Gamecocks get one more upset and salvage a very strange but acceptable season.
But any change likely wouldn’t be one that produces a start at South Carolina like the Muschamp era has had. Chances are with whatever is inherited, it would be a reset of the just the hope clock, again just granting a few years of leeway as someone new tries to build their program. But the clock is ticking for the next ray of hope for the fans and programs future.
First thing, what would be a good short-term outcome if a new guy comes in? The 2020 schedule is again brutal, with a road game at LSU replacing Alabama on this year’s slate. There are three easier non-conference games, but expecting a bounce-back to much better than six or seven wins would be a bit much. Lets go a little further now, In 2021, Gamecocks gets Auburn, along with the usual top-end cast of four teams: Clemson, Georgia, Florida and Texas A&M. Even if the Gamecocks takes that big step forward in a coach’s second year and assuming Tennessee is still struggling — it’ll be a fight to get to eight or nine wins.
Here’s the thing of it: In many cases, a coach hanging on at the end means a decay of sorts. Lack of long-term faith erodes recruiting. Theoretical momentum stalls. But with a Muschamp staff, that hasn’t proven to be the case here with him and this staff. He’s got the Gamecock roster in better shape. Things seem to be going well on the classroom and character side of things. He left a talented base at Florida, one that won a pair of SEC East titles in a weak division. The Gamecock roster is different from what he inherited, one with almost nothing proven at the skill positions, a mess on the offensive line and a defense in bad need of development.
And one more year probably won’t change that. He’d bring in running back Marshawn Lloyd and quarterback Luke Doty in the next recruiting class, and he’d create a more solid base for whatever the future brings. Plus, it doesn’t hurt that his players strongly went to bat for him and families of players and recruits are behind him as well.
Note of importance that should not get lost here is that year 4 historically hasn’t been kind to Gamecock coaches:
▪ Steve Spurrier had one of the best, a 7-6 campaign with a Week 2 loss to Vanderbilt and a three-game losing streak to close the season.
▪ Lou Holtz went 5-7.
▪ Joe Morrison went 3-6-2 before rebounding for two 8-4 years.
▪ Jim Carlen went 5-5-1, making bowls the next two years.
▪ Paul Dietzel did win the ACC his Year 4, but he turned around for a losing season the next year.
Two things can happen here, one is things turn sour in a big way, and the need for a change becomes obvious or thing two the Gamecocks get one more upset and salvage a very strange but acceptable season.
But any change likely wouldn’t be one that produces a start at South Carolina like the Muschamp era has had. Chances are with whatever is inherited, it would be a reset of the just the hope clock, again just granting a few years of leeway as someone new tries to build their program. But the clock is ticking for the next ray of hope for the fans and programs future.
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My feeling here that in Florida and in the Tennessee game the Gamecocks lead into most part till the third quarter. Yes the passing game had it troubles but the Secondary with only 5 players playing the whole game this factor played a major role in helping the 2nd half collapses. With Georgia the Gamecocks won. Georgia primary and run first so the secondary had less to deal with and where able to contain a week passing attack by Georgia. Finishing by saying maybe the best choice here for now is a tune up on the staff and work on getting more depth players that can contribute fast. Look into the strength and conditioning. Could be that simple maybe not.
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...and yet that article mentioned how quickly UF rebounded after they fired WM.
^ Considering we've lost our SEC games by more pts this season than the '15 3-9 team did, I don't know how someone can make this statement. ^
If our roster is in such great shape, then the only thing that can explain the 2nd half beatdowns is coaching.
https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-football/article236747483.html
I don't think the author thought that out. So which is it? You leave talent behind and the next guy immediately starts winning with your players. So does that mean you can recruit but can't win? And if a program sticks with a guy that can recruit but can't win, what does that do?
Our current roster is a 3-5 team that is losing SEC games by and avg of 15 pts. That's worse than our the '15 & '16 teams filled with players from the previous coaching staff. Is it really an "improvement"?
None of that article explains the crux of the matter: Is Muschamp another Brad Scott?
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I really think not yet anyhow more Sparky maybe, but anyhow with the 20M he is due if let go early. That said he has next year regardless as things stand. Less someone is willing to pay the 20M owed him.
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Sporkgod50
GCF Top Poster
There's that ability to see things with a nuanced perspective that you talked about. I'm glad you understand the meaning of not seeing things as black and white, right and wrong.
Guy immediately starts winning with your players. So does that mean you can recruit but can't win? And if a program sticks with a guy that can recruit but can't win, what does that do?
to me yes that's the jest. second one if he can't recruit he will lose, We have seen that play out as well. You got to be able to do both, walk and chew gum.
to me yes that's the jest. second one if he can't recruit he will lose, We have seen that play out as well. You got to be able to do both, walk and chew gum.
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If there was to be a change at the OCs position there would be one call I would make. Hugh Freeze. I still think our defense is in good hands but theplayers are not making plays and it does seem we do not making adjustments to the offenses we are playing. Lets face it, we made another mediocre QB look like a Heisman contender and Callaway and Jennings bore us a new one. Hell even Shrout (or whatever his name is) torched us for a couple of big plays because they got Jennings or Callaway one on one with Ibe. Just really strange to me we didn't do something scheme wise to help defend properly. I know our coaches can coach but it is just puzzling how we play defense from week to week.
Sporkgod50
GCF Top Poster
How do you define long term success? I'd say even with 3 notably bad years the Holtz/SOS years were pretty good ones. We didn't win the national championship, but we were a nationally recognized power and won high profile bowl games. I completely agree with you on the right AD. I loved Tanner as our baseball coach. He's been hit (FM and Dawn) and miss (Champ extension and huge buyout) in other points, IMO.