I took offense to someone seeming to think I want Russia to prevail and for that I apologize, you have a great day and I do hope and pray
you as well as the others are correct but history tends to repeat itself...Gamecock Fanatics
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What should our response be if Russia invades Ukraine?
- Thread starter Blitzkrieg
- Start date
you as well as the others are correct but history tends to repeat itself...
Apparently Moskva has not sunk yet.
news.usni.org
UPDATED: Russia Says Damaged Cruiser Moskva Sank Under Tow Headed to Black Sea Homeport - USNI News
This story has been updated to include a report from Russian state media Moskva has sunk. Russian Navy’s Black Sea flagship RTS Moskva (121) has sunk while being towed toward Sevastopol, Crimea, after sustaining major damage in a fire Wednesday, Russian state media said on Thursday. “During the...
news.usni.org
Supposedly it was a Slava-class cruiser like the Moskva that launched cruise missiles into Lyiv near the Polish border early in the war.
Relatively speaking, sinking the Moskva would be the equivalent of sinking the German battleship Bismarck in WW2.
Relatively speaking, sinking the Moskva would be the equivalent of sinking the German battleship Bismarck in WW2.
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TASS now reporting Moskva has sunk in a storm while under tow.
From my FB friend Jim Wright:
The picture is the Soviet warship Slava underway in the Black Sea off Sevastopol, 1986.
I took this image from the deck of USS Yorktown.
It took my wife a while to find the box of my old Navy albums (I would never have found it).
Slava was only a few years old then. Yorktown herself was brand new.
Yorktown was a new type of warship, an Aegis cruiser (robocruisers we called them), and she was FEARED by the Soviet Navy.
You have no idea how feared.
Yorktown and the destroyer Caron had been sent to make a Black Sea run, mostly to roust the Soviets.
And roust them we did.
The whole goddamn Black Sea fleet turned out, along with every Soviet patrol and strike aircraft in the region.
A lot of their ships were junk, Krivak frigates and Kashin destroyers led by an old WWII Sverdlov class gun cruiser.
But there were also some new Soveremennyy and Udaloy destroyers backed up by deadly Tu-22M Backfire bombers operating out of the Crimean Peninsula in what was then a Soviet vassal state, The Ukraine.
And there was Slava himself (Russians regard ships as male).
New, fast, deadly and heavily armed, Slava, HIM we respected.
Those were intense times. It really felt like the final war could have started at any moment, especially when you were staring into Slava's missile tubes from a few hundred yards away.
Lot of years have passed since then.
USS Yorktown, a ship I remember fondly as new and high tech and the most feared war machine on the high seas, has long since been scrapped as obsolete, as have her sisters Ticonderoga and Valley Forge, both of which I served on.
Valley Forge, my last ship, was sunk as a target after being decommissioned. A sad fate for such a great vessel, but the exercise provided the Navy with valuable data that will make future warships more capable and survivable in combat.
And a far better fate than Slava's.
Renamed Moskva (Moscow in western pronunciation) after the fall of the Soviet Union and promoted to flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet, Slava was getting old, but he was still formidable and on the forefront Russian naval operations.
Russia was still quite proud of him.
We don't know the whole story yet, but Ukraine apparently used a targeting drone and shore based anti-ship missiles to strike Moskva - which is now variously reported as out of action, still afloat, on fire, under tow, and abandoned by her crew and no longer much of a threat.
Moskva SHOULD have been able to defend himself.
The ship's failure to do so leads to all sorts of avenues, none good, from obsolete technology, to poor training and readiness, to the ultimate military sin of grossly underestimating your enemy.
The truth, whatever it is, is the job of the Intelligence Community and whatever the cause of the defeat ultimately turns out to be, there's no way for Russia to spin this as anything other than a major blow -- though the Kremlin will certainly try.
"Slava" means "Glory" in Russian.
There's not much glory to be had for the Russian navy today. The ship's fate is a hell of a victory for Ukraine and an abject lesson for those mired in the past of naval warfare.
___
Addendum: The Kremlin itself is now reporting that the ship has sunk while under tow in heavy seas.
The picture is the Soviet warship Slava underway in the Black Sea off Sevastopol, 1986.
I took this image from the deck of USS Yorktown.
It took my wife a while to find the box of my old Navy albums (I would never have found it).
Slava was only a few years old then. Yorktown herself was brand new.
Yorktown was a new type of warship, an Aegis cruiser (robocruisers we called them), and she was FEARED by the Soviet Navy.
You have no idea how feared.
Yorktown and the destroyer Caron had been sent to make a Black Sea run, mostly to roust the Soviets.
And roust them we did.
The whole goddamn Black Sea fleet turned out, along with every Soviet patrol and strike aircraft in the region.
A lot of their ships were junk, Krivak frigates and Kashin destroyers led by an old WWII Sverdlov class gun cruiser.
But there were also some new Soveremennyy and Udaloy destroyers backed up by deadly Tu-22M Backfire bombers operating out of the Crimean Peninsula in what was then a Soviet vassal state, The Ukraine.
And there was Slava himself (Russians regard ships as male).
New, fast, deadly and heavily armed, Slava, HIM we respected.
Those were intense times. It really felt like the final war could have started at any moment, especially when you were staring into Slava's missile tubes from a few hundred yards away.
Lot of years have passed since then.
USS Yorktown, a ship I remember fondly as new and high tech and the most feared war machine on the high seas, has long since been scrapped as obsolete, as have her sisters Ticonderoga and Valley Forge, both of which I served on.
Valley Forge, my last ship, was sunk as a target after being decommissioned. A sad fate for such a great vessel, but the exercise provided the Navy with valuable data that will make future warships more capable and survivable in combat.
And a far better fate than Slava's.
Renamed Moskva (Moscow in western pronunciation) after the fall of the Soviet Union and promoted to flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet, Slava was getting old, but he was still formidable and on the forefront Russian naval operations.
Russia was still quite proud of him.
We don't know the whole story yet, but Ukraine apparently used a targeting drone and shore based anti-ship missiles to strike Moskva - which is now variously reported as out of action, still afloat, on fire, under tow, and abandoned by her crew and no longer much of a threat.
Moskva SHOULD have been able to defend himself.
The ship's failure to do so leads to all sorts of avenues, none good, from obsolete technology, to poor training and readiness, to the ultimate military sin of grossly underestimating your enemy.
The truth, whatever it is, is the job of the Intelligence Community and whatever the cause of the defeat ultimately turns out to be, there's no way for Russia to spin this as anything other than a major blow -- though the Kremlin will certainly try.
"Slava" means "Glory" in Russian.
There's not much glory to be had for the Russian navy today. The ship's fate is a hell of a victory for Ukraine and an abject lesson for those mired in the past of naval warfare.
___
Addendum: The Kremlin itself is now reporting that the ship has sunk while under tow in heavy seas.
Diplomacy? With a tyrannical dictator? Yeah that always works out well.I will ask again, what is the plan big guy? If he attacks usthings change but politics has always told us diplomacy was the best way and now we are picking sides and creating enemies, giving away our weapons cache publicly...BRILLIANT Are we drawing lines in the sand, if he does attack them we starting WW3, you good with that? Right is right and I want to stand up for what is right but at what cost, the world as we know it...
Good stuff Yancy...thanks.
So you are all in for WW3. who is the last tyrannical dictator with nukes that we didn't use diplomacy with, refresh my memory
The Russians have had nukes since the late '40's. This isn't a recent phenomenon. And no I'm not all in for WWIII. I'm also not OK with Russian attacking innocent sovereign nations and getting away with it because "they have nukes."
Roger that, so you could not come up with a tyrannical dictator with nukes that we did not use diplomacy on...
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By all means...enlighten us.
Zelenskyy appeals for ‘stronger, more destructive’ sanctions, says up to 3,000 Ukrainian soldiers are dead
Russia has warned it will increase retaliatory missile strikes on Kyiv, a day after its flagship cruiser was sunk in the Black Sea.
www.cnbc.com
Mariupol officials: Russia preventing civilian burials in 'new level of cleansing'
Mariupol’s City Council is warning Friday that Russia’s military is carrying out a “new level of cleansing” in the besieged Ukrainian city by not allowing residents to bury deceased civilians.
www.foxnews.com
Most moronic avenue of debate in this thread, which says a lot.
Well since you offer absolutely nothing to the thread with your post I would disagree but you have agreat day slinging shit
Clearly nuclear weapons are defensive, not offensive when it comes to diplomacy so the tyrannical dictator is pretty safe and therefore diplomacy has proven to be the only way since 1945 or do we challenge that and history.... isn't this moronic
How to Avoid Nuclear War - War on the Rocks
Arms control has become passé. Russian and U.S. leaders have cast aside treaties as inconvenient to their pursuit of freedom of action. Republican
warontherocks.com
What are offering besides magical thinking and snark? Asking for a friend
Obviously nothing to you so what are you asking and tell your friend you forgot the you in his question
isn't this moronic...What is anyone in this thread offering but an opinion, you feel the need to troll me and for what? Speaking of snark... tell your friend I would tell you but I would have to kill you and that should be enough. You going to post anything that concerns this thread administrator?
CIA director warns Putin's 'desperation' over Russia's failures in Ukraine could lead him to use nukes
"None of us can take lightly the threat posed by a potential resort to tactical nuclear weapons or low-yield nuclear weapons," the CIA chief warned.
www.businessinsider.com
Tell me again how moronic my posts are Mr. Administrator and tell your friend to keep Dave Chappelle's name out his freaking mouth...