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What should our response be if Russia invades Ukraine?

kingofnerf said:
I think you hit the nail on the head right there.

No nation in its right mind would do what Russia is doing now.
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I read a report that the Wagner group is pretty much using prisoners as cannon fodder to send wave after wave of untrained soldiers in without regard for lives lost. And only when those first few waves of expendable folks had weakened the Ukranians, do they send in the next round of more experienced fighters. And Anyone that retreats without a command or being injured gets executed. Using the Wagner Group allows Russian gov to limit the number of losses that they report.

This is a brutal war.
 
FurmanCock said:
I'm sick and tired of the U.S. being point for defending Europe when something like 90% of NATO countries are still not meeting the 2% of GDP funding for their own military. If the current Russian threat isn't motivation for adhering to the NATO agreement, then nothing will ever get them to adhere.
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A lot of this falls back on Germany. Note countries like Finland, Estonia, Lituania & Poland are stepping up. There is likely some kind of shift in all this towards the eastern eurpean countries picking up the mantel.
Also...interesting....the Korean K-2 tank. Poland has already taken shipment of some of these and will eventually produce them in Poland.
Some of this flows back to alliances in Asia with arms sales, Japan, Taiwan, etc.

Global autocracies have to be enraged at Putin right now.
 
Somebody please tell me that the Abrams tanks that the U.S. is finalizing to give to Ukraine is the 40 year old technology ones and not the current M1A2C Abrams.
 
kingofnerf said:
My perception is that there is money to be made if you're an arms dealer right now.
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Big money....there are pictures of Ukrainians using artillery shells from Iran and several other middle eastern countries.

Looks like the CIA has been at work.

OpenFatalAsianlion-size_restricted.gif
 
Well it now appears that Ukraine will be getting tanks from at least the US, Poland and Germany.
 
Operation Desert Sabre, for those not old enough to know about it.

Operation Desert Sabre / Gulf War Ground Campaign

www.globalsecurity.org www.globalsecurity.org

In ninety hours of continuous movement and combat, VII Corps achieved impressive results against the best units of the Iraqi military. Franks' troops destroyed more than a dozen Iraqi divisions, an estimated 1,300 tanks, 1,200 infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, 285 artillery pieces, and 100 air defense systems, and captured nearly 22,000 men. At the same time, the best Iraqi divisions destroyed only 7 MlA1 Abrams tanks, 15 Bradleys, 2 armored personnel carriers, and 1 Apache helicopter. And while killing unknown thousands of enemy troops, VII Corps lost 22 soldiers killed in action.
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en.wikipedia.org

Gulf War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Tawakalna Republican Guard Division was Iraq's most powerful division which included approximately 14,000 soldiers, 220 T-72 tanks, 284 infantry fighting vehicles, 126 artillery pieces, and 18 MLRS.[214] The Iraqi 52nd Armored Division was also a primary participant.[207] It was a powerful division consisting of 245 tanks and 195 armored fighting vehicles.[215] The Iraqi 10th and 12th Armored Divisions were also present. The two divisions formed the foundation of the Jihad Corps.[191] The Iraqi 10th Armored Division was considered the best regular division in the Iraqi Army.[216] It had more modern equipment than the other regular Iraqi units.[216] It was equipped with T-72 and T-62 tanks.[216] The T-62 tank being its primary system.[216] Overall the primary tank of the Iraqi forces was the T-55 tank.[217] The Iraqis fielded them in great numbers.[217] The Iraqis also had elements of two other independent armored brigades in theatre, those being the 50th and 29th Armored Brigades.[218] Iraq would also field multiple Infantry Divisions.
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The Iraqis suffered the loss of over 3,000 tanks and over 2,000 other combat vehicles during these battles against the American-led coalition.
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The defeated Iraqi tanks were all Soviet T model tanks. There's only one outcome when tanks that can fire accurately while moving (ours) meet those that cannot in an armored battle.
 
Blitzkrieg said:

MSN

www.msn.com
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The Abrams is a future investment. At best, these might be ready for action in 6-8 months. Training & integration are long lead times.

Eventually Ukraine will convert to mostly western combat gear with vehicles like the Abrams, Korean K-2 & the German Leopard 2 competing for future contracts/$$.
 
One of the times German and Soviet armor met on the battlefield in WW2:

en.wikipedia.org

Battle of Kursk - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The Battle of Kursk was a major World War II Eastern Front large-scale engagement between the forces of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union near Kursk in the southwestern USSR during late summer 1943; it ultimately became the largest tank battle in history.
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It's hard to tell from the maps on the Wikipedia site, but Belgorod in SW Russia is only about 50 miles northeast of Kharkiv along the main road to Moscow.

Kursk is about 80 miles north of Belgorod along the same road to Moscow.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKtD2kht1ZI

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbR2JzMn2E
 
JimG said:
The Abrams is a future investment. At best, these might be ready for action in 6-8 months. Training & integration are long lead times.

Eventually Ukraine will convert to mostly western combat gear with vehicles like the Abrams, Korean K-2 & the German Leopard 2 competing for future contracts/$$.
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And the war machine goes rolling along...
 
If Ukraine was still a nuclear power would Russia even think about this? Who talked Ukraine into giving up their tactical nuclear weapons? Who told Ukraine not to worry, Russia is not a threat, we will protect you? How come we didn't react like this during Cimea? How come no issues for 4 years and then... just curious? Lots of questions 🤔 concerning this war, Ukraine, Russia, American politics, world politics...
 
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