And why is it that the west thinks it can tell the Ukrainians when to stop fighting for their freedoms? We possess some kind of moral superiority?
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What should our response be if Russia invades Ukraine?
- Thread starter Blitzkrieg
- Start date
I'm guessing because we are financing the war... not saying it is right or wrong,, just why!
Right. Exactly. A stronger, unified NATO response would have prevented or greatly shortened this war and all its human suffering by now.
Has it been fear, complacency, or waiting for that "somebody" fella, that never really exists, to stand up strong to Putin's crap? All of the above?
The Wagner group will most likely be labeled a foreign terror group soon by some reports; useless words on a piece paper unless you step in and stop/destroy them.
I believe the weather conditions this time of year will prevent major movements by either side until the spring. Things will get interesting leading up to that time.
Many of the western European countries were heavily dependent on Russian oil/gas, etc. It was not easy for them to be adversarial towards Russia considering their vulnerabilities. The warm winter in most of Europe has helped a lot with natural gas supplies. The US is now supplying a lot of that gas.
Sweden & Finland are now major players in supporting Ukraine. They are moving towards becoming the newest members of NATO.
Before the invasion last year, Ukraine was just an unknown country on a board game to most folks, including me.
If the U. S. and others had magically come over the top with decisive military assets to stop Russia in its tracks, we still would not have known where Ukraine's loyalties stood. Now it's safe to say Ukraine for the most part hates Russia after all destruction and human suffering.
Ukraine has been admitted to the EU and NATO membership is most likely the next step. The Ukrainians are clearly the best war-fighters in Eastern Europe and would undoubtedly be NATO's tip of the sword against Russia if they were allowed to join NATO.
Will Ukraine be allowed to join NATO before the warm weather comes and with it the anticipated major Russian offensives? Personally I believe it's the next step.
Then you would have NATO air power enforcing a DMZ/No-fly zone to protect Ukraine from further violence.
JMO.
If the U. S. and others had magically come over the top with decisive military assets to stop Russia in its tracks, we still would not have known where Ukraine's loyalties stood. Now it's safe to say Ukraine for the most part hates Russia after all destruction and human suffering.
Ukraine has been admitted to the EU and NATO membership is most likely the next step. The Ukrainians are clearly the best war-fighters in Eastern Europe and would undoubtedly be NATO's tip of the sword against Russia if they were allowed to join NATO.
Will Ukraine be allowed to join NATO before the warm weather comes and with it the anticipated major Russian offensives? Personally I believe it's the next step.
Then you would have NATO air power enforcing a DMZ/No-fly zone to protect Ukraine from further violence.
JMO.
Ukraine joining NATO while they're at war with Russia means war with Russia. I don't see that happening while hostilities are ongoing.
Nope, not even close. Turkey is blocking Sweden from joining. Hungary is sympathetic to Putin.
Check back in 5 years.
Not happening while at war with Russia, could concede lost land to Russia to join NATO, could be away out of this War...
I am sympathetic with Ukraine, but there are also a lot of contradictions with the conflict.
It seems a lot like the reverse of the Bay of Pigs/Cuban Missile Crisis to me, except that Ukraine did not invade Russia (at least not yet anyway).
If Putin was providing weapons to help the Mexican drug cartels kill National Guardsmen on our Southern Border in a hypothetical conflict, what would be our response to Russia? Probably nothing, out of fear of starting a nuclear war using the logic many use for limiting our military support in the Ukraine right now.
I make a distinction between the average, decent Russian citizen who does not want to participate in the Ukraine war and Putin.
Our supplied weapons have been killing a lot of Russians for a while now. I don't think most people expected the war to drag out this long. What if Putin at some point launches on American assets away from the Ukraine conflict in retaliation? Would we do nothing in response?
Putin is the individual perceived aggressor in this conflict. Does taking him out end this war? Is it worth having Ukraine target and shoot down his official jetliner like we shot down and killed Admiral Yamamoto in WW2?
It takes two sides to have a cease-fire/peace agreement. Is killing Putin the only option to end the war right now?
It seems a lot like the reverse of the Bay of Pigs/Cuban Missile Crisis to me, except that Ukraine did not invade Russia (at least not yet anyway).
If Putin was providing weapons to help the Mexican drug cartels kill National Guardsmen on our Southern Border in a hypothetical conflict, what would be our response to Russia? Probably nothing, out of fear of starting a nuclear war using the logic many use for limiting our military support in the Ukraine right now.
I make a distinction between the average, decent Russian citizen who does not want to participate in the Ukraine war and Putin.
Our supplied weapons have been killing a lot of Russians for a while now. I don't think most people expected the war to drag out this long. What if Putin at some point launches on American assets away from the Ukraine conflict in retaliation? Would we do nothing in response?
Putin is the individual perceived aggressor in this conflict. Does taking him out end this war? Is it worth having Ukraine target and shoot down his official jetliner like we shot down and killed Admiral Yamamoto in WW2?
It takes two sides to have a cease-fire/peace agreement. Is killing Putin the only option to end the war right now?
Until you put yourself in the shoes of those in Ukraine, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, or Finland; you won't understand what's happening.
This is much broader than a US v. Russia thing.
Straight up, the war in Ukraine is in the back of my mind most of the time. I just don't follow it like I used to.
I have compassion for the Ukrainians, but if they are given the requested Leopard battle tanks, then that opens up path for counter-invasion by Ukraine.
If Putin is the problem instead of Russia in general, then somebody has to take him out. Then Russia pulls out of Ukraine and there is peace. Then Russia pays some type of reparations and a peaceful world keeps spinning round and round.
What if Putin is taken out and Belarus revolts and chooses a better life allied with the West instead of Russia?
Taking back what's yours is not a counter-invasion.
This has a long ways to go as Russia is flooding the front lines with thousands of fresh/untrained recruits trying to wear down the Ukrainians.
It is just plain horrific.
I know. It's just awful. The kind of war we haven't seen since WW2 or WW1.
I really feel sorry for the innocent Russians forced into service as much as I do the Ukrainians. As bad as it gets here sometimes, at least we are free to complain without being thrown into the gulag for doing it.
I remember joining the Navy in 1989 because I needed a job and wanted to have one immersed in cool technology; then Desert Shield and Storm happened out of the blue. As quickly as the war happened, it was over and the deep draw-downs happened in the services. My dad died during my WESTPAC cruise and I decided to get out after we came back home.
This war kinda feels like Desert Storm and Shield in a way. We kept hoping Saddam would back-down, but instead it got worse. We went to war and then it was over as fast as it started. Hopefully there is a truce that involves a full Russian pull-out to the pre-invasion borders before the summer.
If Russia ends up conquering Ukraine they (Putin) won't be content to stop there. We've seen this movie way too many times before.
We haven't heard anything out of Syrian President Assad since Putin came to his aid in 2016 and then asked Assad to step aside, which he refused.
Who told who to STFU? LOL
Turkey would be caught in a pincer between Russia and Syria if Putin prevails and takes Ukraine.
Would Assad kick the RF out of Syria if Putin fails in Ukraine? Is Russian oil really Syrian oil?
But most of those getting killed right now are convicts being used by the Wagner private miliary firm. Russia is ridding itself of their murderers and worst people by throwing them into a slaughter. The disregard for human life in Russia is not the same as the west.
This is being repeated by those countries on the border or closest to Russia (Finland, Estonia, Lituanina, & Poland).
The outcome also affects how China may look at a potential invasion of Taiwan and even N. Korea's attitude towards the South.
This is the PM of Finland (a country that has fought the Russians before)
I think you hit the nail on the head right there.
No nation in its right mind would do what Russia is doing now.
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FurmanCock
Grand Poohbah
Just a couple of points, fully recognizing this situation, created by Russia, is lose/lose for everyone:
Just read that the Ukrainian deputy defense minister has resigned over corruption charges -- reportedly over military food supply purchased (it was being bought at 2 to 3 times the price of grocery store food items in Kyiv). Seems to be par for the course, based on reputation of Ukrainian officials. I have little doubt that some percentage (don't know how big or small) of U.S. aid is being skimmed off to corrupt officials.
I'm sick and tired of the U.S. being point for defending Europe when something like 90% of NATO countries are still not meeting the 2% of GDP funding for their own military. If the current Russian threat isn't motivation for adhering to the NATO agreement, then nothing will ever get them to adhere.
Just read that the Ukrainian deputy defense minister has resigned over corruption charges -- reportedly over military food supply purchased (it was being bought at 2 to 3 times the price of grocery store food items in Kyiv). Seems to be par for the course, based on reputation of Ukrainian officials. I have little doubt that some percentage (don't know how big or small) of U.S. aid is being skimmed off to corrupt officials.
I'm sick and tired of the U.S. being point for defending Europe when something like 90% of NATO countries are still not meeting the 2% of GDP funding for their own military. If the current Russian threat isn't motivation for adhering to the NATO agreement, then nothing will ever get them to adhere.
Having participated in several NATO missions I can assure you that the waste and corruption is wide spread.